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Old 09-18-2012, 02:15 PM   #11
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Yes. Cut the tablet in half, or quarter, or whatever for your volume.
Thanks Yooper. ( my leather bound vixen is gone again)
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:17 PM   #12
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Ok everyone calm down... This web page should shed light on some of this...
http://hbd.org/ajdelange/Brewing_articles/BT_Chlorine.pdf
It states that the half life is somewhere around 26.6 mins but it would have to undergo many half lives to be completely removed... So if you do two half lives then there's still 1/4th of the chloramine in it. So to completely remove it then yes it would take hours
That is the dated document from the 90's.... In contrast, multiple .gov and city water websites are saying that it takes 5 minutes to remove half of chloramine (and 5 minutes for another 50% reduction, etc) or approximately 20 minutes to remove most of chloramines. I don't understand why you guys can't accept that.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:19 PM   #13
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Ok everyone calm down... This web page should shed light on some of this...
http://hbd.org/ajdelange/Brewing_articles/BT_Chlorine.pdf
It states that the half life is somewhere around 26.6 mins but it would have to undergo many half lives to be completely removed... So if you do two half lives then there's still 1/4th of the chloramine in it. So to completely remove it then yes it would take hours
That is the dated document from the 90's.... In contrast, multiple .gov and city water websites are saying that it takes 5 minutes to remove half of chloramine (and 5 minutes for another 50% reduction, etc) or approximately 20 minutes to move most of chloramines. Why is that so difficult to accept?
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:24 PM   #14
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That is the dated document from the 90's.... In contrast, multiple .gov and city water websites are saying that it takes 5 minutes to remove half of chloramine (and 5 minutes for another 50% reduction, etc) or approximately 20 minutes to remove most of chloramines. I don't understand why you guys can't accept that.
Well, "dated" but extensive data, proven scientifically vs. "my water company says" is really not making it easy to accept. I won't even get into the probable health issues dealing with chloramine, which your water company will deny but you can do your own research. Just because your water company tells you "boil 20 minutes to remove most of the chloramines" doesn't make it correct, nor does it make it scientifically proven.

Perhaps this threadjacking can end now, and we could argue this point in the "brew science" forum where the water chemistry experts hang out? This long argumentative discussion has no place in the "beginner's forum" and we are getting nowhere.

Thanks.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:01 PM   #15
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Well, "dated" but extensive data, proven scientifically vs. "my water company says" is really not making it easy to accept. I won't even get into the probable health issues dealing with chloramine, which your water company will deny but you can do your own research. Just because your water company tells you "boil 20 minutes to remove most of the chloramines" doesn't make it correct, nor does it make it scientifically proven.

Perhaps this threadjacking can end now, and we could argue this point in the "brew science" forum where the water chemistry experts hang out? This long argumentative discussion has no place in the "beginner's forum" and we are getting nowhere.

Thanks.
I don't think it's fair you make a counter argument and then say that's it, move it along, especially since you are a moderator--you are setting me up. I don't think it's fair you are appealing to emotions instead of facts "my water company" vs "science". There is more practical science in a water company than in an unmarked badly written document hosted on a beer website. The document isn't science, it's an anonymous paper based on other papers. No one has to vouch for its authenticity.

Anyway, cheers. I'm off to play.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:43 PM   #16
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I don't think it's fair you make a counter argument and then say that's it, move it along, especially since you are a moderator--you are setting me up. I don't think it's fair you are appealing to emotions instead of facts "my water company" vs "science". There is more practical science in a water company than in an unmarked badly written document hosted on a beer website. The document isn't science, it's an anonymous paper based on other papers. No one has to vouch for its authenticity.

Anyway, cheers. I'm off to play.
Incidentally, that "scientific water paper" you linked to says that your chloramine may reduce by half by boiling and that it will "taste better if you put it in the refriderator". Hardly a persuasive scientific paper. Sure, you may not taste it. But it will be there!

The author of that (very well known paper) is AJ deLange, the noted brewing water chemistry expert. It's not "dated" in the sense that the experiments are invalid.

The fact that you state: "There is more practical science in a water company than in an unmarked badly written document hosted on a beer website. The document isn't science, it's an anonymous paper based on other papers. No one has to vouch for its authenticity" proves you a, havent' read the science, b. are not a scientist yourself, and c. have no clue what you are talking about.

Mr. deLange is quoted in brewing science textbooks as an authority, he spoke this year as an expert at the National Homebrewers Conference, and he is almost always listed in the bibliographies as a source in brewing water texts and websites.

Please give your references for your claim that your water company says that the chloramine will disappear in a 20 minute boil, so that at least the people who are scientists can see it.

Let's start a new thread in the Brewing Science forum concerning this issue, and these posts will be moved.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:54 PM   #17
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Yeah. I asked my water companies chemist whether or not we used chlorine or chloramine. He said chloramine. I asked how to get rid of it for brewing purposes. He said sodium or potassium metabisulfite is the only way. Otherwise any phenols produced during the brewing process would bond with the chloramines.

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Old 09-18-2012, 06:59 PM   #18
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Yeah. I asked my water companies chemist whether or not we used chlorine or chloramine. He said chloramine. I asked how to get rid of it for brewing purposes. He said sodium or potassium metabisulfite is the only way. Otherwise any phenols produced during the brewing process would bond with the chloramines.
^^ this. You can also use a carbon catalyst filter but form my discussions with people smarter than me, it has to be exposed to the filter too long to have significant impact in real-world usage.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:06 PM   #19
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^^ this. You can also use a carbon catalyst filter but form my discussions with people smarter than me, it has to be exposed to the filter too long to have significant impact in real-world usage.
I was told the very same thing.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:25 PM   #20
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Going to add now http://www.phila.gov/water/fact_sheets.html

Says it takes 5 minutes of boiling to remove half of chloramine:

Does boiling improve the taste of tap water? It is unlikely that you will notice any taste difference. The primary reason for the taste of tap water is the chloramine (chlorine) that is in the water. This gives the water a slight chlorine taste. The chloramine is there to maintain the freshness of the water throughout the City. Chloramine is used because it is persistent. Boiling water for five minutes might only reduce the chloramine level by half. It will not get rid of the chloramine. Placing the water in the refrigerator in a water jug will help to reduce the chlorine taste since colder water has a less noticeable taste.
I did just want to bold iambeer's resource in the appropriate place. The text is from his source, but the bolding is mine.

Notice that the source specifically states, "It will not get rid of the chloramine".
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