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Old 11-07-2010, 05:06 PM   #1
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Default Celebration Clone Water

I've some real harshness in my IPA beers in the past. I've read Kai's and Palmer's info and have used the water profiler sheets as well as EZ. Hopefully someone can tell me if I'm in the right direction.

Starting Water: Ca 60 Mg 16 Cl 39 Na 26 SO4-S 16 HCO3 184
Total Hardnes CACO3 217 Total Alkalinity CACO3 150

I'm diluting with 70% Distilled (for 12.5 gl batch w 11.74 strike 5.67 sparge) and came up with these additions:

12g CaSO4 8.77g CaCl 2g MaSO4 2.31 NaCl To get this profile

Ca 133 Mg 10 Na 29 Cl 138 SO4 183 Cl to SO4 ratio .76 est mash 5.34

SRM is 9.9 32.37lb total grain, 30.1 2-row, 2.4 Crystal 60, 68 IBU

Am I on the right track? Thanks and one day I hope to get water all figured out.

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Old 11-07-2010, 06:01 PM   #2
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That's a lot of sulfate which may be the problem. I'd start out with 1/3 that amount or less. You might want to look at the first sticky in Brew Science.

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Old 11-10-2010, 06:18 PM   #3
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readjusted my water to this: 70% Distilled

Ca-84
Mg-11
Na-31
Cl-100
SO4-124
Alkalinity CaCO3-45
Residual Alkalinity- -22

Brewing it next weekend. These numbers suggested by another brewer. Hope it works out or 12.5 gallons will be drank with bitter beer face.

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Old 11-10-2010, 08:47 PM   #4
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Its most def. the sulfate that is giving you the overly bitter beers, b/c 68 IBUs is right for that beer (OG is prolly 1.066-1.070, right?).

I also think your Cl levels are high. I'm guessing you are trying to keep some type of Cl:SO4 ratio, but I don't know if that is necessary. I would personally just not add the NaCl, and just add gypsum additions. Start with just the gypsum and that way you can know what that does to your beers. Then start adding NaCl and whatnot if you really want to/think you need to.

You are doing the right thing by diluting your water with distilled water, because you have a lot of carbonates (hardness, alkalinity). But I would start simple and work your way up, so you can gauge what your water alterations are actually doing to your beer.

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Old 11-10-2010, 08:59 PM   #5
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I contacted Sierra Nevada about their water earlier this year when I began trying to clone SNCA. One of the brewers responded with this:

We use a very large addition of Calcium Sulfate to Calcium Chloride addition. Mash sees all the chloride and most of the sulfate but some is also added to the boil kettle. It works out 9:1 Sulfate to Chloride.

I went with that in my second attempt at SNCA and the bitterness tasted very close.

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Old 11-10-2010, 09:14 PM   #6
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Nice info Brian. I know that they filter all their water and then add the salt additions. I have heard a lot about adding gyspum in the boil, but I haven't done that since my extract days.

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Old 11-10-2010, 11:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkswing View Post
Its most def. the sulfate that is giving you the overly bitter beers, b/c 68 IBUs is right for that beer (OG is prolly 1.066-1.070, right?).

I also think your Cl levels are high. I'm guessing you are trying to keep some type of Cl:SO4 ratio, but I don't know if that is necessary. I would personally just not add the NaCl, and just add gypsum additions. Start with just the gypsum and that way you can know what that does to your beers. Then start adding NaCl and whatnot if you really want to/think you need to.

You are doing the right thing by diluting your water with distilled water, because you have a lot of carbonates (hardness, alkalinity). But I would start simple and work your way up, so you can gauge what your water alterations are actually doing to your beer.
Thanks for the feed back. This is the first time for salt additions for me. I had always dilluted my water. Now I know what it did to some of the things I needed for fermentation. I will drop my Na addition and most of the Cl, and yes I was trying to balance per Palmer. I used all his info to get these additions. And with what Brian added I can do exactly what you suggested. I guess what everyone says is true, less additions is better than too much. Thanks again
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBrianI View Post
I contacted Sierra Nevada about their water earlier this year when I began trying to clone SNCA. One of the brewers responded with this:

We use a very large addition of Calcium Sulfate to Calcium Chloride addition. Mash sees all the chloride and most of the sulfate but some is also added to the boil kettle. It works out 9:1 Sulfate to Chloride.

I went with that in my second attempt at SNCA and the bitterness tasted very close.
Thanks Brian, makes what I made up per Palmer, not in the ballpark. Thanks for the info. This is one I need to clone. Man does it eat my wallet this time of year.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:16 PM   #9
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I know what you mean. I bought a case the day it showed up here! Does it seem to have less hop aroma to you this year? (I know people say this every year but I swear it seems subdued this year!)

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Old 11-10-2010, 11:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog House Brew View Post
This is one I need to clone. Man does it eat my wallet this time of year.
BTW what recipe are you using? I am really digging the celebration right now too and I would like to make something similar.
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