Yes, Another Apple Ale Thread

[ArkotRamathorn]

After running out of New Glarus Apple Ale (probably one of the beers that really put me on the war path to start home brewing) I'm looking to start experimenting to make an Apple Ale. Since there seems to be speculation all over the place on how NG does their apple ale, I'll worry more about just making what could potentially be a tasty apple ale. The thing that I could find the most definitive information was that NG uses a brown ale as a base for their apple ale.

I'm going to start with a 3.5 gallon batch of wort for a brown ale recipe, listed below.

3# 2-Row
1# 2-Row Toasted
.5# C40L
.25# Chocolate
.25# Carapils (this part is highly optional, I'm not sure if I really want/need it)

.5 oz. EKG 60 minutes (5%ish, depending on what my local place has in stock)

Wyeast 1318 London III (should be ale to keep it relatively warm in the 72-74 range) 1 smack pack

I'm wondering if I really need the Carapils. I have approximate 12lbs of cider thats between 1.030-1.035ish (a gallon and 2 liters if my numbers aren't wrong). I was planning basically to take the cider and get it as icy cold as possible and throwing it in the kettle after flame out to help bring the temp down quickly. From what I've been seeing a lot of the ciders that people make tend to drop below 1.000 usually so my logic behind the carapils was to keep some sweetness.

How exactly will the IBUs and the OG/FG be affected by the addition of the cider, if I simply add the 1.5ish gallon of fluid to the calculator it shows I drop 5-6 IBUs, would this be a safe guess for the approximate drop in IBUs since the cider won't be boiled? Assuming 75% efficiency it goes from 1.038 to 1.026 for the OG, since the OG of the cider and the wort will be fairly close, will the OG stay the same basically?

With my recent addition of equipment including a 6.5 gallon carboy, should I plan a secondary fermentation on this? A friend steam juiced the apples for this cider as a favor and there are some bits of apple left over in the juice, I have heard horror stories of puke flavored ciders.

 

[kingwood-kid]

The cider is almost all simple sugars, and should ferment out close to 100%, perhaps more than 100% apparent attenuation. Because your cider will ferment out so much more than standard beer, you'll want some extra body (Carapils) and sweetness (crystal malts) to offset the dryness, as well as all the acid from the apples.

If the cider has been pasteurized, your plan for them is fine, and no secondary will be necessary. If it hasn't been pasteurized, it is probably home to wild yeast and bacteria. Dumping boiling wort on it may be enough to sterilize it, or it may not. You'll want a temp over 160. You still shouldn't need a secondary.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Will the 4 ounces of chocolate completely overpower and make it have coffee tones? From what I've read it can lend a nuttiness to the beer if its used in small amounts.

I'm hoping to come out with a bready-nutty slighty sweet beer to smooth out the tartness I am expecting from the cider. The cider right now, unfermented, is very very tart. My idea is the 2 row, with a little bit of toasted 2 row should lend a breadiness. I could substitute the toasted 2 row for some wheat if that would give a stronger breadiness.

 

[kingwood-kid]

My general advice is to make a brown ale that has some extra sweetness and body. Unfortunately, I don't know how tart that cider will turn out once it's fermented. Not that I'd have a perfect plan if I did. You may want to ferment the cider separate from the beer, then blend to taste, bearing in mind that flat beer tastes sweeter than the same beer when carbed up.

 

[Toy4Rick]

I just finished a keg of spiced apple ale which was very tasty

Brewed a std ale recipe, split it into 2 fermenters, added 1/2 gal of pure apple juice to each. Added 1 gal of water to each which brought my OG back down to 1.060. Added yeast.

It reminds me somewhat of a hard cider but not as sharp or dry

Enjoy
Rick

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

My general advice is to make a brown ale that has some extra sweetness and body. Unfortunately, I don't know how tart that cider will turn out once it's fermented. Not that I'd have a perfect plan if I did. You may want to ferment the cider separate from the beer, then blend to taste, bearing in mind that flat beer tastes sweeter than the same beer when carbed up.

I thought about blending, but equipment concerns would preclude me from fermenting them at the same time.

I may be getting greedy and over confident, but I want to get the apple ale started this weekend. If not this weekend I want to get my Blueberry Lambic started next weekend so maybe by summer I can start thinking about trying some samples so my carboy is spoken for. (SWMBO's parents are letting me keep my 5lb bucket of blueberries in their freezer and they don't rib me for it, but I don't like to impose on people's freezer space as much as is possible so I want to get those out and fermenting into delicious beer-ness)

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Ah one idea I had been kicking around due to the potential of the beer becoming too dry/tart. I could take, probably, of the 12lb(ish) of cider I have, take 2lbs of it and reduce it to apple mollasses. Probably would end up with like .25lbs of apple mollasses but, that should all end up being very unfermentable caramels.

I could reduce, then, mix that with silver rum to dilute it a bit and back sweeten with that.

 

[Riot]

You should see where it finishes and add the apple molasses if it goes too low. The home made caramel idea is pretty much my plan if the Graff I have going finishes under .008

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Had to subtitute wyeast 1056 for the 1318 and Marris otter for the toasted 2 row. I had been bouncing back and forth between Marris and toasted 2 row anyway. And I think the tartness and Apple mollasses will dominate this beer regardless of yeast train.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Just bottled this last night and really happy with my "samples" I took. A nice bready cidery sweetness is present after adding approximately 4 ounces of apple molasses to the bottle bucket.

I haven't used gelatin before but, when I do this recipe again I was thinking I might try and use a clarifying agent. Would you just sanitize the package and add it to the secondary and give it a week or two of secondary fermentation and let it clarify? I'm not sure right now how clear or not clear this beer will be after conditioning, I could've asked this before bottling but this will be the first beer of all grain brewing that I think turned out exactly how I wanted it to turn out (woo hoooo) so now I'm going to take notes on what to do next time with this one.

 

[chri5]

What was the gravity before you added the apple reduction?

That sounds like a nice version of an apple beer. I've always kept my grain bills on the less dark side of things, but starting with a base beer recipe for a brown ale sounds like a good way to go. I'll have to try that next batch.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

It was 1.006. The apple molasses reduction wasn't as thick as usual, it was probably the viscosity of room temperature maple syrup. I hadn't thought of doing a hydrometer sample post adding the apple reduction so I don't know how much it moved the gravity. It definitely sweetened the beer up though since it had a nice sourness with the bready beer flavor so it added a lot of caramel sweetness. But, the samples would be slightly skewed because the priming sugar was also present so the sweetness should balance out after conditioning.