Southern English Brown Advice

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mcbethenstein

mcbethenstein

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I'm planning on a southern english brown ale for my next brew. I have never even tasted one, but after reading through the BJCP guidelines I was intrigued. The part of the description that hooked me was "like a mild version of sweet stout or a sweet version of a dark mild". I really am looking to make a carmel-ly chocolatey lighter version of a sweet stout. I've taken a look at many different recipes on here and took bits and pieces from those that looked good. Where I need advise is whether or not to add lactose or malto-dextrin to the beer. Our sweet stout has 1 lb of lactose in it and I find that the amount is perfect, but I've not used crystal malts before so I'm not really certain what to expect for residual sweetness from the dextrins. Here is my intended recipe. Critique as you like... but my grains are already purchased and I plan on brewing later this weekend. I know I could always leave the lactose out, ferment to terminal gravity and THEN add lactose just prior to bottling. But that's putzy, so I'm hoping to figure this out before then.

Southern English Brown Ale

6.5 lb Maris Otter
1 lb Crystal 60L
.5 lb Simpson's Chocolate
.25 lb Special B Roast
.25 lb flaked barley (have a full pound, and have 1/2 lb of flaked wheat, could sub out, or go with more)
1 oz Fuggles
WYeast NB 1945 NeoBritannia (harvested from sweet stout)

I am debating 8 oz of lactose or 8 oz of malto-dextrin. If you think no lactose what mash temp should I go with to keep the bitterness down, but eek out all the sweetness possible?
 
Looks more like a brown porter/mild than southern brown to me, though the recipe looks pretty tasty regardless. Southern browns tend to be dominated by lots of dark caramel sweetness (up to 20% crystal) and not so much chocolate/roast. Actually, you can think of them as a sweeter version of a dark mild.

I would not add any lactose or malto-dextrine yet. Ferment the beer out and see how it sits before adding anything. You don't want this style to be too sweet.

Edit: I probably should have read through your post. If your looking to make a lighter sweet stout/mild thingy, it looks good. I might go with 8oz of lactose if it ferments out well below 1.012.
 
A southern English brown is my favorite style of beer. And even here in the beervana that is Oregon, there are precious few that are any good.
My favorite commercial examples are Lost Coast Brewery's Downtown Brown and Avery Brewing's Ellie's Brown Ale (they call this an American Brown but to my taste buds it's more like a southern English).
I'm only 2 batches into this hobby and both have been browns (extract). I'm curious to see how your brew turns out. Please keep us informed and good luck!!
 
JasontheBeaver said:
A southern English brown is my favorite style of beer. And even here in the beervana that is Oregon, there are precious few that are any good.
Click to expand...

Since you have had a few, can you give me your impressions on taste. What works well, bitterness levels, your preference for color/sweetness levels. That sort of thing. I'm really only going on description here.

P.s. I brewed this morning and it looks good. I didn't want to go too far out of style, so to keep my color and gravity in check I shortened my boil and put about 6 gal into the fermenter. I'm getting crazy great efficiency lately.
 
I'm still such a rookie and have only brewed extracts that my feedback may not be helpful. Bitterness levels are very low, with definite caramel maltiness being prominent. I also like a little lower carbonation level.
 
So, I thought I would update everyone on the progress. I brewed on 7/9/11 and hit an OG of 1.043 with that grain bill and a 6 gal batch. On 7/19 I transferred to secondary with a SG of 1.017. I could see that fermentation was not complete, there was CO2 rising yet, and a few patches of krausen on the top, but this was my only chance to move it, as we headed out for vacation the next morning. I'm a little surprised it's not completely done yet, but it is in a 67 deg F room in my basement. I took a small taste and so far it's awesome. Exactly like what I was going for. Chocolatey caramel-y and still a bit of sweetness left, but if that does finish fermenting out I will add the 8 oz of lactose. But even if it doesn't I'll probably still add the lactose.
 
I am a National BJCP judge and have judged this category dozens of times. I've also had my SEB win many times.


Couple of points:

  • There are no commercial examples of SEB here in the states other than an occasional brewpub offering.
  • Actually, there's hardly any commercial examples available anywhere. The one notable exception is Mann's, available in the UK. It's a very low ABV pastuerized product. Sweetened after fermentation.
  • Your mash temp has nothing to do with bitterness levels. Perhaps "perceived" levels. I usually mash on the high side for this style - 155-158f.
  • I'd advise not to "secondary" your beers period, but especially these low ABV styles. You certainly should NEVER rack off the yeast before fermentation is complete. This results in green apple and other off flavors that the yeast would normally metabolize if given the chance.
  • You shouldn't need to add lactose. Won't hurt, but really not needed. Homebrew recipes for this style usually have so much crystal malt that mouthfeel/body is on the high side anyway. Homebrewed SEBs tend not to be very similar to the product as sold in the UK. Most judges here in the states have never tasted the real thing, and are only going by the guidelines, which as somewhat misleading. At least according to the late Ant Hayes, who led a seminar on the style a few years back at NHC.


So take away what you will, but seriously consider switching to a primary-only fermentation, skip the secondary and leave the beer on the yeast until it's absolutely, completely finished.

The beers that win competitions are not those with the most finely tweaked recipe, but usually with the least flaws, especially fermentation flaws.

Brew on!

Michael

mcbethenstein said:
I'm planning on a southern english brown ale for my next brew. I have never even tasted one, but after reading through the BJCP guidelines I was intrigued. The part of the description that hooked me was "like a mild version of sweet stout or a sweet version of a dark mild". I really am looking to make a carmel-ly chocolatey lighter version of a sweet stout. I've taken a look at many different recipes on here and took bits and pieces from those that looked good. Where I need advise is whether or not to add lactose or malto-dextrin to the beer. Our sweet stout has 1 lb of lactose in it and I find that the amount is perfect, but I've not used crystal malts before so I'm not really certain what to expect for residual sweetness from the dextrins. Here is my intended recipe. Critique as you like... but my grains are already purchased and I plan on brewing later this weekend. I know I could always leave the lactose out, ferment to terminal gravity and THEN add lactose just prior to bottling. But that's putzy, so I'm hoping to figure this out before then.

Southern English Brown Ale

6.5 lb Maris Otter
1 lb Crystal 60L
.5 lb Simpson's Chocolate
.25 lb Special B Roast
.25 lb flaked barley (have a full pound, and have 1/2 lb of flaked wheat, could sub out, or go with more)
1 oz Fuggles
WYeast NB 1945 NeoBritannia (harvested from sweet stout)

I am debating 8 oz of lactose or 8 oz of malto-dextrin. If you think no lactose what mash temp should I go with to keep the bitterness down, but eek out all the sweetness possible?
Click to expand...
 
Great feedback, thanks!

This raises a question though, if there is only one SEB commercial style available in the entire world then how does anyone really know EXACTLY what it's supposed to taste like other than by using the guidelines? Seems to me it's just a matter of opinion.
I'm still very new to the home brewing scene so discussions like this regarding beer styles are very interesting.
 
JasontheBeaver said:
Great feedback, thanks!

This raises a question though, if there is only one SEB commercial style available in the entire world then how does anyone really know EXACTLY what it's supposed to taste like other than by using the guidelines? Seems to me it's just a matter of opinion.
I'm still very new to the home brewing scene so discussions like this regarding beer styles are very interesting.
Click to expand...

The BJCP style guidelines list two additional examples: Harvey’s Nut Brown Ale, Woodeforde’s Norfolk Nog. I've only had the Mann's.

It used to be a much more popular style with many commercial examples, but times, and tastes change.

Much more info here: http://www.bjcp.org/cep/nhc08_SEBA.pdf

Michael
 
Datamike,
Thanks sooo much for the input! It helped tremendously. It looks like my brew is right in line with the guidelines. And I will use some lactose, I just need to draw a sample to figure out how much. My fermentation temps are pretty tightly controlled, and my sample seemed clean, so I'm not too worried about any off flavors. I'm hoping to bottle this weekend. Then let it condition for a little while before a local competition in September. My main concern really was if lactose is acceptable within style guidelines. so your link was super helpful.
 
Update: I tasted a gravity sample and this is coming along very nicely. Still at 1.017. A bit high for final gravity, but I'm not really sure what to do about this. I do have a good heaping pile of crystal malt in there, so this is probably it. I do taste a little hint of those "british esters" coming through. But the sample is dominated with carmel and chocolate. The body did seem a little thin, so given all the reading i've done recently I have officially decided on 8 oz of lactose and to carb to approximately 2.5 volumes or with about 4.5 oz of priming sugar for about 6 gallons. (middle range of low carbonation according to my iPhone app)
 
If you've got a lot of crystal and mashed high, 1.017 could be about it. I'd leave it for another week before you keg/bottle, the yeast may clean up after themselves a bit more.
 
It's been sitting in secondary for 2 weeks already, I'm planning on bottling this weekend. It's going into a local competition that's judged on sept. 9th, do I want to give it enough time to carb up. I think flavor is spot on for what I want...having never tried this style before.
 
Update: this recipe is in the top 3 for it's category at the schooner homebrew championship. I won't know the actual placing until after Saturday. I think I'll be pouring one out tonight... At that point I'll try to post a pic or two. ;)
 

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