LAPHROAIG Ale

I want something totally different from anything I have ever enjoyed!

Have you ever slowly savored Laphroaig at room temperature with just the slightest wee dash a cool water in a snifter. This is what I am seeking in a new beer. Not really a Scotch or even Scottish ale, but something truly unique.

Laphroaig instantly takes me to Scotland due to its peat notes, wonderful esters, smoothness, almost a light creaminess in terms of mouth feel, and, of course, the warm glow experienced even in sipping. Even before drinking it, as it warms just a bit in the snifter, there is the enjoyment of the aroma.

SO, applying the sensory perceptions of color, texture, flavors (all of them), and aromas, what does this mean in a beer.

The presence of rich, but NOT heavy, peat is a must. But this would have to be an authentic peat, not the cloying heavy aromas I have sometimes smelled that have been more musty than that natural, barely sweet aroma of GOOD peat.

Beneath the obvious distilled alcohol scotch aroma of Laphroaig there are many subtle complexities such as a barely discernable vanilla and caramel that combine perfectly with the peat

Mouth feel is important, but not a heavy, syrupy, sticky thickness like a porter or some stouts, nor a watery/too light texture.

This would not be a very sweet flavor either, but nor would it be an in the face hops flavor or aroma. In fact the hops would barely be noticeable in the flavor and minimally there in the aroma.

Certainly, minimal carbonation.

This is not a porter, a stout or similarly heavier beer. Body is fine, but NOT the super sweet or even heavily discernable alcohol for the sake of alcohol taste.

I think this would be a moderately rich beer, but made rich by its balance, aroma, and the layers and depth of flavors.

Your thoughts? How do we get there?

If you want something that tastes like scotch then scotch is your only option, but a lot of the flavor in scotch comes from the oak barrels its aged in so your beer would need to be aged in old whiskey barrels like scotch or at least the right type of charred oak chips soaked in whiskey. I think scotch is made entirely from peat smoke malt but a lot of the flavor is lost through distillation so maybe between 1/4 to 1 Lb per 5 gallons for a beer would give you a strong peat flavor. to make it more scotch like I would use some adjuncts or sugars to thin the body and raise the alcohol. Using the right yeast is also essential, although im not sure which one would be right. I made a really good wee heavy a year and a half ago but I cant say it tasted like scotch, it was as close as I would have liked for beer.

I used this recipe:
13lbs american 2row
3/4lbs caramel 60L
1lbs caramel 120L
1/2lbs peat smoked malt
1/4lbs belgian bisciut
1 lbs brown sugar
.75oz target 60 minutes
.5oz fuggle 15 mintues
wyeast 1728 scottish ale
mashed at 156f 60 minutes
my efficiency was low 60%ish so if yours would be higher or if you convert to extract you might want to scale the recipe.

What you are describing is something I have had and made many times....

here is how you do it (although this is difficult to do on the cheap).

1. You take one imperial pint glass
2. Fill the pint glass with 2 shots of Scotch, Laphroaig is a good choice (you should look into Lagavulin)
3. Top with Guinness. (Beamish is much better from the can, so if you don't have beer gas, I would go with Beamish.

This is delicious. As far as brewing a beer, you will have a very hard time achieving what you are talking about. Try my technique and I am sure you will be happy.

Laphroaig.....*shudders*

I have a bottle of 25 yr old Talisker. Sadly, I have barely 2 fingers left.

k1v1116 said:

If you want something that tastes like scotch then scotch is your only option, but a lot of the flavor in scotch comes from the oak barrels its aged in so your beer would need to be aged in old whiskey barrels like scotch or at least the right type of charred oak chips soaked in whiskey. I think scotch is made entirely from peat smoke malt but a lot of the flavor is lost through distillation so maybe between 1/4 to 1 Lb per 5 gallons for a beer would give you a strong peat flavor. to make it more scotch like I would use some adjuncts or sugars to thin the body and raise the alcohol. Using the right yeast is also essential, although im not sure which one would be right. I made a really good wee heavy a year and a half ago but I cant say it tasted like scotch, it was as close as I would have liked for beer.

I used this recipe:
13lbs american 2row
3/4lbs caramel 60L
1lbs caramel 120L
1/2lbs peat smoked malt
1/4lbs belgian bisciut
1 lbs brown sugar
.75oz target 60 minutes
.5oz fuggle 15 mintues
wyeast 1728 scottish ale
mashed at 156f 60 minutes
my efficiency was low 60%ish so if yours would be higher or if you convert to extract you might want to scale the recipe.

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Thanks for the one out of four with a thoughtful responce. Maybe this can serve as a good starting point. Are there folks from Britain out there? Re, the Guinness and Scotch idea...that is a long way from what I had in mind ...far too heavy and not likely to allow the enjoyment of the Scotch experience. I LOVE a good stout, but NOT the style I am after...far to sweet and too heavy. For those who don't enjoy Laphroaig...please don't ever waste the stuff by drinking it ...the gods would NOT be pleased. The brown sugar would be a concern though as I don't want this too sweet or having that sticky or syrupy sort of feel or taste. However, that residual caramel taste methinks must be somthing that would provide a good background for the alcohol and the smoked malt. Definitely don't want that dark roasted taste of so many stouts. Looking for something I think that would be a brown/red, not syrupy or too sweet. Balance here would be the key so the smoked peat or the caramel malt flavor would not dominate each other. It wouldn't even have to be too thick and defitely not that strong taste of alcohol or in your face hops that would mask other flavors. Maybe the balance in a strong, peaty, dark malt ale is the answer. I even love porters, but this is an ale, even if a dark ale. Rich in the way all of the flavors would come together to make a GREAT ale.

how do you pronounce that?? leap-frog??

No I am not from England, but I am telling you that what I posted above is delicious. I really don't understand what you are going for I guess. Not to sound odd, but Guinness is not very heavy out outwardly flavorful, that is why it works so well with the Scotch mix. Also, the mouthfeel is really good when that scotch get mixed in there. I will try to help you on your mission, but I really don't know what you are after.

Death - lah-froy-gg

Boerderij Kabouter said:

No I am not from England, but I am telling you that what I posted above is delicious. I really don't understand what you are going for I guess. Not to sound odd, but Guinness is not very heavy out outwardly flavorful, that is why it works so well with the Scotch mix. Also, the mouthfeel is really good when that scotch get mixed in there. I will try to help you on your mission, but I really don't know what you are after.

Death - lah-froy-gg

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Actually, was wrongly thinking of the Guinness extra stout. The Guinness on draft would be better...but ,and maybe it's my Scots blood, but couldn't get past that first step of pouring my Laphroaig..or even Lagavullen..into a glass to be mixed. I have trouble just adding the tad of water. I THINK that what I am after would be close to a classic, old style, Scotch Ale...but going easy on the syrupy, sweetness. I like a full bodied (as in flavor), well balanced, ale with depth of flavor (is complex a better word) but no one ingredient that totally masks the others. Definitely NOT sweet like a porter or stout, but at the same time not dryness or bitterness driven by too much hops. Somehow think this will come of a good selection of the right malts, hops and yeasts, but also from the processing so that the sweetness or sugars get used to create body. I think this would be more bodied and more alcohol than a regular ale, but not at all like a porter or stout in thickness. Something where the malt and peat come through, but still a strong ale.

hmmmm.....

I think if I were trying this I would shoot for a 90 shilling Scots ale. Try to find an authentic recipe, I know BYO did a couple good recipes a year or so ago (I think they where discussing the uses of black patent malt). I would try and pick one that has a very low finishing gravity (for the style) and ferment it at the lower temperature range of the yeast (use a scots ale yeast). I would then say the biggest factor (for my imagination) would be a low carbonation and served with beer gas or high serving pressure. I think this would yield a distinctly flavored ale with an interesting body.

mensplace said:

Thanks for the one out of four with a thoughtful responce. ... For those who don't enjoy Laphroaig...please don't ever waste the stuff by drinking it ...

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Sorry, couldn't help myself. The one time I tried it, the one drink stayed with me all night. I couldn't get rid of the taste. Definitely not my cup of tea...er...Scotch. You don't have to worry about me depleting the supply

I'll do my penance and add some useful ideas.

I would use a normal Strong Scotch Ale statistics and build the recipe from there. A hefty proportion of cane sugar (around 15%) will dry it out an lighten the beer. You could caramelize it, but at the expense of added perceived heaviness. Mash low, again to help dry it out but keep your bittering way low. I'd go with a single malt backbone and some Crystal malt mixtures, in the mid range say maybe some 10 and 60 to give you a blend of that mid level caramel notes. 5% Carapils to enrich the body. I would use a non-distinct yeast and no aroma hopping and maybe no flavor addition either. The hardest part will be getting the Peated Malt proportion correct. This will only be done via experimentation, if you root around some guys have had experiences with this. For obvious reasons I have never used it

It sounds like you are looking for something in the 1.075 starting range that finishes fairly low though. It should be deceptively strong so you'll want to age it for like 7 months.

I AM IMPRESSED! Lordy, the technology and depth of knowledge has changed since the days thirty years ago when all grain brewing was boiling a chosen combination of grains and then fermenting!!!! Might I beg a concensus of opinion just for the fun of it in terms of a suggested recipe? I will brew it and report back!
Goal...low hops taste, balance, depth of flavor and aroma derived from malt and the discernable (though not totally pervasive notes of scottish peat smoking), low carbonation, depth of color, Not too sweet, real ale flavor

Try my https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f65/traq-air-owl-wee-heavy-59774/ and(I'll begrudge this) add a little Peated malt. Islay area Scotch is very peaty.
If you don't want it so malty don't boil down the first runnings

Please use the right yeast, it makes all the difference

Pronounced lafroyg. The younger variants are very peaty, the 30 yr when you can find it is about the finest scotch around. I would never ever ever water it, ice it, or anything other than take it neat. Preferably while smoking Cross Eyed Cricket or Penzance from one of my finer pipes, or perhaps a Cuban cigar. Beer and scotch are just different occasions IMO. Peated malt in a beer might get close, as the flavors would be similar. Never denigrate fine scotch, all you need is a good snifter.

thorongil said:

The vanilla notes in Scotch, as well as some of the creaminess, come from the oak, so I'm thinking that might be difficult to copy. I'd say MO as a base, a fair amount of peat malt and some lighter crystal for a touch of sweetness would be close. Maybe throw in a vanilla bean at flame out. I have very little experience with my own recipes, but my guess is that you can play around with these in whatever software you use and come up with something. Oh, and I agree that hopping would be minimal, and I'd stick with goldings or fuggles and prob Nottingham yeast.

This is starting to intrigue me... I might have to give it a shot myself. Can anyone guide me on the use/amounts of peat malt?

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You could oak the batch to get that oak/vanilla flavor and a little peat malt goes a long way. 5% would probably ruin the batch. If you use peated I would start with 1% and use Scottish yeast, I like Wyeast 1728 as it gives a slightly smokey flavor to the beer

Reading through one well recognized BIBLE of brewing, I found it interesting that one of the recipes that was actually of English origin was incredibly simply...with one kind of classic malt and one kind of yeast. Somehow, I think the simple taste, low hops and slight background GOOD smoked Scottish malt may wel be partly the key. The process then enters in with darkness and caramelization as well as the proper yeast both contributing to the style.

i know exactly what you want and here is how i would do it. base grain would be golden promise and add in just enough peated barley for the right smokiness. 1-5% probably but i'v enever used it so i dont know. that's it for grains. boil down a bit of the wort for color and a bit more complex flavor profile. hop with fuggles or EKGs at about .25-.5/1 IBU/OG ratio. I'd aim for a fairly high OG, enough to get about 8-9% ABV. mash at 150 F for 90 minutes to get a very fermentable wort and ferment with a scottish yeast. age on oak chips for at least 3 months. that should make a pretty descent brew. that's how i would do it anyway.

EDIT: forgot to say that the hop addition would only be for bittering. no flavor or aroma hops additions.

KingBrianI said:

i know exactly what you want and here is how i would do it. base grain would be golden promise and add in just enough peated barley for the right smokiness. 1-5% probably but i'v enever used it so i dont know. that's it for grains. boil down a bit of the wort for color and a bit more complex flavor profile. hop with fuggles or EKGs at about .25-.5/1 IBU/OG ratio. I'd aim for a fairly high OG, enough to get about 8-9% ABV. mash at 150 F for 90 minutes to get a very fermentable wort and ferment with a scottish yeast. age on oak chips for at least 3 months. that should make a pretty descent brew. that's how i would do it anyway.

EDIT: forgot to say that the hop addition would only be for bittering. no flavor or aroma hops additions.

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Should have known that I would have received good vibes from someone in NC, espcially from one in the center of the world's best BBQ. I think I will give your approach a shot, but will use just a FEW very well aged oak chips in the boil. THANK YOU! For the record, the original English ales used simple recipes, not the super complex compendiums of today and they achieved the caramel from the boil, with only a modicum of hops flavor and low carbonation.

mensplace, have you tried this yet? i'm thinking of trying something like what i suggested and wanted to see if you had tried it and what you thought.

Must have missed this the first time round. Here's my advice.

Bob

Boerderij Kabouter said:

1. You take one imperial pint glass
2. Fill the pint glass with 2 shots of Scotch, Laphroaig is a good choice (you should look into Lagavulin)
3. Top with Guinness. (Beamish is much better from the can, so if you don't have beer gas, I would go with Beamish.

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Now that's what I call a NightCap!!!!!