Invert Sugar - Creation, Use, Flavor, Etc.

One thing I was wondering
If a recipe calls for 0.25 lbs of invert sugar.
Does one make an invert sugar using 0.25lbs of sugar
and use that, or do you make an invert sugar syrup and weigh that?

dzlater said:

One thing I was wondering
If a recipe calls for 0.25 lbs of invert sugar.
Does one make an invert sugar using 0.25lbs of sugar
and use that, or do you make an invert sugar syrup and weigh that?

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Use 0.25 lbs of the finished product.

Use 0.25 lbs of the finished product.

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But that finished product could contain, by weight, anywhere from 0% to 33% or more of water--based on Unholymess's procedure, and assuming the syrup is "topped up" to replace some of the water lost during the hour-and-a-half boil.

So if your process isn't somewhat standardized, you could miss your intended gravity by a few points for sure. Not a huge deal. I would think it is always best to make the invert in batches of at least a certain size, to lessen the impact of measurement error associated with the tiny acid addition.

But what do I know--I haven't even tried it yet.:cross:

There should _not_ be any top up water, so the product should be fairly standard. It does help to make larger batches - heck, this stuff will last for a good year or two in an airtight container.

corncob said:

But that finished product could contain, by weight, anywhere from 0% to 33% or more of water--based on Unholymess's procedure, and assuming the syrup is "topped up" to replace some of the water lost during the hour-and-a-half boil.

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That's the problem I ran into yesterday I think. The syrup was thicker than I expected so I think it provided more gravity than I calculated for. But even with the invert being over 10% of my fermentables my calculations showed that basing its potential on either 1.036 or 1.046 would only swing the gravity by 1 point.

By the way, I don't see how it is possible to not add tiny additions of water through the process if you want the invert to be a syrup and not hard candy. When I made my second batch last week, I probably added a half cup or more of water in tiny increments over the 2 hour cook. And I still ended up with a syrup that barely flows. Holding the sugar at 240 drives water out fast enough that after 2 hours of no water additions, you would have nearly 100% sugar, and thus hard candy when cool.

No, it won't be hard candy if it inverted. That is the magic of invert syrup! If it does turn into a rock, you goofed the inversion. This is also why adding some corn syrup is suggested - it helps ensure the syrup doesn't crystallize in the rare case it doesn't fully invert.

There is a definite lack of flowing, but all you need to do is soak the container in hot water for a bit and it'll loosen up nicely.

Good to know, I'll have to try it next time with no water. What potential do you use for the invert in your recipe calculations?

45/36/33 for Nos 1/2/3

Finally got around to brewing a bitter with the second batch of invert syrup I made a while ago. The recipe was really simple, I'm hoping to see how much character the sugar gives the beer. The hydrometer sample tasted really good though, should be drinking this one in a few weeks! I'm tempted to try and make a batch of No.3 and try that out in a stout, though I'm a little worried about boiling sugar for 3 hours.

bierhaus15 said:

I'm tempted to try and make a batch of No.3 and try that out in a stout, though I'm a little worried about boiling sugar for 3 hours.

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Sounds like a good solution to the question of what you should brew tomorrow!

OK so if a recipe calls for 0.25lb of invert, you take the weight of the invert and not the weight of the sugar used to make the invert.
But my brewing software and a couple charts I have list the gravity points of plain sugar and the gravity points of invert sugar as the same number.
So the software and charts are wrong?
What I tried to do was weigh the invert to figure out the SG and then use the volume I wanted to add to see how it would raise the gravity of the wort,but that was kind of a pain.

My attempt at #2, in chronological order, clockwise from the spatula around to the spoon:

I used Unholy's method, but with half as much water as he called for--only a half pint per pound of sugar, and only about a teaspoon of light corn syrup to prevent crystalization before inversion completed. I used demerara and it foamed like crazy. The inversion took, apparently, because I now have two pounds of soft ball stage black candy in the fridge. It pours like honey at room temperature and tastes like nothing I've ever tasted. Actually it reminds me of the home-made cane syrup you used to find around the Southeast US, but "cleaner." No "twang." I guessed at the color, but it looks like a very dark porter when viewed in a larger container. It went for 2 hours and 15 minutes at 240.

Thanks to UnholyMess and the freaks at ShutupaboutBarclayPerkins. I am PSCHYCHED about brewing a strong bitter with this stuff and some flaked maize.

Sorry to Zombify this thread but I just found it, planning on making some this week, and had all my questions answered. Using cream of tartar as I have some in my spice rack.

thanks guys, got Unholy's method a while back but, kept forgetting to order the lactic acid... Using cream of tartar as I have some in my spice rack.

Hey guys. I thought I might add my two cents in here.

What you are making is caramel.

I make pastry and chocolates as a job so I can say a few points.
invert sugar is used as a preservative in making bon bons etc. it is very sweet but does not taste acidic.
Glucose is used to stop sugar from crystalising and the acid that you see beeing used is to modify the crystals of súgar. IE: hte more acid you add to your sugar the more elastic it will be when it sets.

If you really want invert sugar then i would sugest going into a shop and buying some "trimoline" thats acommon name for invert sugar in the pastry world.

Or Try this recipe. Invert sugar recipe | By Pastry Chef – Author Eddy Van Damme
That is what invert sugar looks like. if it is brown then the sugar is burnt.

At what point in the boil do people add their invert sugar? Can it go in from the start, or should it be added towards the end?