Alley Wreck Clone (via extract)

X-Post from extract brewing (seems to be a lull in activity there)
YES! I know! It won't be the same, but can someone help me modify this recipe for extract brewing?

70% 2row
4.5% C60
4.5% C80
2.5% Chocolate malt
2.5 Roasted barley
2.5% debittered black malt
5.7% rolled oats

Yeast WLP001

Mash temp high
finish gravity is about 5P
OG 21P
Hop variety does not matter much first and last additions 25 IBU total
Dry hop with equal amounts of light roast whole coffee beans and coconibs for about 2 days before kegging.

--> I will be doing a 5 gallon batch. If you'd rather tell me HOW to convert it, rather than what the final conversion would be, I'll gladly accept that as well.

I loved this beer so much - its the perfect beer

Volume 5 gallons

Extract
9.5 lbs. Extra light DME

Grain
12 oz. flaked oats
12 oz. pale two-row
5 oz. C60L
5 oz. C80L
5 oz. roasted barley
5 oz. debittered black
You'll need to use a mini-mash because of the flaked oats. Quick oats will give easier results - plain rolled oats have to be cereal mashed. The crystal malts are at a lower level than you would expect since extract has crystal in it.

Hops
1.0 oz. Brewer's Gold, FWH
1.0 oz. Brewer's Gold, 20 minutes
1.0 oz. Brewer's Gold, 10 minutes
1.0 oz. Brewer's Gold, 5 minutes
I don't know anything about how it smells or tastes, so I used Brewer's Gold as a good, flavorful hop for stouts. Incidentally, I would expect an RIS to be closer to 50 IBU than to 25.

OG 1087, FG 1022, IBU 26, SRM 32.

I convert recipes manually, using Brewer's Friend online software. BeerSmith has a conversion tool that does it automatically.

WOOO!! Thank you so much. I'll go the 'instant oats' route. I've never done all grain - just beer kits and extract experimentation.

This beer is the perfect beer.
If anyone disagrees its just cause they're jealous.

To be clear, this is partial mash (a.k.a. mini mash). I encourage all of my students to get to partial mash - it gives you access to several styles that are inaccessible by extract alone (e.g. oatmeal stout, witbier, cream ale). There is a great tutorial on partial mash brewing, by Deathbrewer, here. He also has one on making a yeast starter, here.

starters don't make sense to me..... I get it but I don't get it.

Well, a couple of things.

Making a yeast starter gives you some assurance that the yeast is alive and active. If you use Wyeast yeast, then the smack pack does this, too, but White Labs devotees just have a vial that gives no indication as to the vitality of the yeast within.

Secondly, it lets you make more yeast cells. Let's say that you're brewing a koelsch, five gallons of OG 1045 wort. You need about 210 billion yeast cells to pitch it properly. You could get that done with a single package of US-05. Cost you about $4. But that's not a koelsch yeast; it won't give you as clean a flavor profile. If you want koelsch yeast, you're into liquid, and without a starter, you'll need two packages. Cost you about $14. Or you can use a single package, with a starter, simultaneously ensuring that you have active yeast and enough cells. Cost would be closer to $8.

This need for more cells becomes more acute with a higher OG wort. Brewing a barleywine with OG 1150, for example, you'd need about 490B yeast cells. That's five packages of liquid yeast. Or you could use two packages, with a six liter starter, and have enough. $35 vs. $18.

Another way to go, and the one my local brewpub uses, is to make lighter gravity beers with enough yeast pitched from the package. Then harvest the resulting yeast for use in the next batch, so using the beer itself as a starter.

"If you want koelsch yeast, you're into liquid, and without a starter, you'll need two packages. Cost you about $14. Or you can use a single package, with a starter, simultaneously ensuring that you have active yeast and enough cells. Cost would be closer to $8."

But when you add your one packet to your total volume... they are going to multiply too, no? I get you can save a day or two from OG to FG with a starter if you're in a hurry. But if you have everything you need immediately, why wouldn't just adding the single packet to your 5 gallons and mixing for a day be any different than adding the pack to a starter and mixing for a day, and then adding the starter?

Has nothing to do with speed. It has to do with the life cycle of yeast. If the reproduction phase of fermentation goes on too long, off-flavors develop. So we make a yeast starter to increase the number of yeast cells, and then we discard the resulting "beer" and pitch the remaining yeast slurry into the new wort, starting the life cycle over again. With the right number of yeast cells, the reproduction phase doesn't last too long, the yeast is not over-stressed, and off flavors do not develop.

There are some styles where the production of odd off flavors is put to advantage. Many Belgian styles rely on these flavors for their unique character, and so are routinely underpitched.

Ok, that makes more sense, thanks for the clarification

Hi everyone -

I've got a follow up question as I've never done a partial mash (let alone a mash) - I will be following DeathBrewer's post on partial mashing as close as possible, however, quite a few places say "The temperature of the mash depends on the grains". Does it? Isn't it all the same enzyme (more or less) that gets activated, and therefore every grain should be maximized at the same temp??

So I did the math, can't remember the website/tool I used, but it said 165° is the temperature I should shoot for at 1.5 Gallons (is this too small?) which will bring it to 150 or 152° ACTUAL.

How do I know I have conversion without iodine? Is there anyway to tell? I'm assuming that oats are going to be somewhat slow to convert.

Then, once the mash is complete - 30 minutes or 45 or so - I will add in the DME, mix, boil, hops, etc. And be done.

In calculating strike temperature, what matters is how much grain and what temperature it's at before you put it in the mash tun.

If you used some kind of strike temperature calculator, then your result should be right. And if you calculated the amount of mash water using a calculator, or by hand, using something reasonable (like 1.25 or 1.5 qts. per pound of grain), then it should be right.

If your net diastatic power is over, say, 40 Lintner, then it won't take much time to convert the oats (assuming you're using quick oats).

You could do what most of us do, and take it on faith. Or you could calculate what the SG should be after conversion, and compare that to your own SG reading (corrected for temperature).

Hmm, I guess the SG option is the only one I have for this - if I want to do it right (and I do).

I did the mash calculation with 2.75 lbs of grains (not quick oats, just "rolled") in 1.5 gallons of water. IS this concentration ok?

Are you using quick oats or rolled oats? Quick oats can be mashed as-is. Rolled oats require a cereal mash.

It should be okay. A little thin, maybe.

sptaylor70 said:

Are you using quick oats or rolled oats? Quick oats can be mashed as-is. Rolled oats require a cereal mash.

It should be okay. A little thin, maybe.

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It just says rolled oats..

I mean in real life, not in the calculation.

yes, thats what it says in real life. "Rolled Oats" on a bag - 8 oz

Then you'll need to do cereal mash. BeerSmith has a bit on it here. I use Quaker quick oats - they've already been gelatinized.

This will be my first time doing this.
What I've got so far is I need to gelatinize the oats at 130F - how long
And then I mash at 150-155 (162-168 starting temp) - how long
Then sparge with similar temperature water

I keep reading about this but I'm not getting serious answers on the length of time.

Is there another step after this aside from the 60 minute boil?

EDIT: A northern brewer oatmeal stout partial mash recipe doesn't talk about gelatinizing "flaked oats". It just goes straight to the mash. I think I'm just going to do this instead.

The NB recipe doesn't talk about a cereal mash because they're using flaked oats, not rolled oats. Flaked oats = quick oats = already gelatinized. Rolled oats = not gelatinized => cereal mash.

sptaylor70 said:

The NB recipe doesn't talk about a cereal mash because they're using flaked oats, not rolled oats. Flaked oats = quick oats = already gelatinized. Rolled oats = not gelatinized => cereal mash.

Click to expand...

Ah. Why don't they say quick oats or something. Mine are flaked oats so I won't have to cereal mash! Woo!

Why don't they say quick oats or something?

Click to expand...

Because they want you to buy their flaked oats at $2/lb. (plus S & H) rather than going down to the grocery store and buying Quaker at 3 lbs. for $2.