Can anyone explain the idea behind a stout faucet? What about it is better / different than a standard faucet. Can I use one without beer gas, just using my standard co2? Thanks for explaining.
Stout faucet - what's the concept?
- Thread starter BeerGrylls
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
The easiest way I can explain it is: The faucet has a restrictive plate in it. Basically a plate with a lot of tiny holes. This causes the nitrogen in the stout to make those lovely little bubbles. You can use one with out beer gas. Many do, but you won't get the same result like a Guinness pour.
The way I understand it, and I may be wrong, is that the stout is carbed normally with Co2.
Higher pressure than what is normally needed is used to push the beer through the restriction plate (which makes the creamy head), and if you used Co2, the carb level would be too high, so nitrogen is used (usually a mix of 75% nitrogen, 25% Co2) to push the beer instead of Co2.
Higher pressure than what is normally needed is used to push the beer through the restriction plate (which makes the creamy head), and if you used Co2, the carb level would be too high, so nitrogen is used (usually a mix of 75% nitrogen, 25% Co2) to push the beer instead of Co2.
It's all about the creaminess of the beer / head.
Personally, and much more expensively, I prefer hand pulled beer with a sparkler.
Personally, and much more expensively, I prefer hand pulled beer with a sparkler.
OP
OP
Thanks, that makes some sense. I'm just wondering if it's worth going through all of the extra hassle of buying and installing the faucet and beer gas canister, as well as keeping said cylinder full. That's why I was going I could just use the faucet and forego the canister and just use co2.
If you go through the trouble of getting the faucet, I'd get the whole setup. No better way to drink a stout. 
You could do it that way if you only pressurized the stout (with Co2) long enough to pour, then disconnect/turn it down. Major hassle, and if you forget, will way over-carbonate the beer.
OP
OP
Oh ok, maybe I'm still not completely grasping this. If you use a stout tap, would you carbonate the keg at a lower volume than if you were using a regular faucet? Or did I misinterpret you?
You need to carb it first (I go at 8psi for 2-3 weeks) then run it off my N2/CO2 (73/27) mix. Strait CO2 will give you a glass of whipped foam.
OP
OP
So what's different about nitrous, does it not go into suspension like co2 does?
photogscott
Well-Known Member
Nitro is forced out of suspension through a stout tap. Nitro bubbles are smaller than co2 bubbles, thus a denser creamy head. beer gas is a blend of N and co2
Nitrogen isn't absorbed into solution so once through the restrictor plate it forms smaller then CO2 bubbles which have a smoother texture and being denser the atmosphere hold together longer. A true stout tap will also tip to the rear for a all foam to top off the the stout after you let the pour cascade out.
I wouldn't be without my nitro setup as a stout and porter drinker.
I smile every time I pull a fresh pint!
I smile every time I pull a fresh pint!
The object is tiny bubbles for a creamy head. This is obtained by carbonating the beer to about 1.2 volumes of CO2 and then pushing it at high pressure through a sparkle plate. The proper carbonation level is attained by either putting the kegged beer under a blend of 25% CO2 and 75% nitrogen at 32 psig (38°F) or 0 psig straight CO2 at a slightly warmer temperature. In either case it should be stored and served at 38°F and should be pushed with a 25%/75% blend. Note that this is not the same as 'beer gas' which usually has a higher CO2 content but should be close enough.
The nitrogen does not dissolve in the beer to any appreciable extent. It is there to vigorously force the beer through the holes in the sparkler plate. This produces the tiny CO2 bubbles responsible for the 'show' and the creamy head.
The nitrogen does not dissolve in the beer to any appreciable extent. It is there to vigorously force the beer through the holes in the sparkler plate. This produces the tiny CO2 bubbles responsible for the 'show' and the creamy head.
Correct. I should have said that in my first response.
Neither nitrous nor CO2 go into suspension. They both dissolve and their solubilities are about the same. But no one is talking about pushing beer with N2O. Interesting thought though....
Just so we are clear, nitrogen, N2, the other gas that is used to push beer through a stout faucet, has solubilty approximately 1/75th of that of CO2 or nitrous oxide.
OP
OP
Thanks all for the highly informative responses. I feel like I understand much better now.
in terms of a nitro setup, unless you are going to be pouring alot of stouts/porters through the faucet, all you really need is the faucet and a 5 lb bottle. My local gas supplier sold me just the 5 lb canister, saying at that size it's the same pressure as the CO2 bottle, that there was no need for the different bottle with different thread, and therefore different regulator. I use a normal regulator that doubles as a spare when I'm not pushing a beer that requires the beer gas mixture. I already had that spare regulator, so all I needed was the new bottle. Worked out pretty cheap for me. Just something to think about.
Nitrogen essentially does not dissolve into beer. It's purpose is simply to push the beer hard enough to overcome the restrictor plate, knocking the small amount of dissolved co2 out of solution and whipping it into a froth of tiny bubbles. Those tiny bubbles rising quickly to the surface creates a column in the middle while beer churns down the inside wall of the glass giving the classic cascade effect. The low percentage of co2 in a beergas blend is just enough to maintain the low carbonation while at a high enough pressure to push the beer violently through the faucet. If you run straight nitrogen, the beer will be flat and you won't get any head or cascade, which is desirable for things like wine, liquor, or other still beverages. Stout faucet is somewhat of a misnomer since many styles are surprisingly good served through one. In fact, trying Hop Devil IPA on nitro at Victory is what convinced me to buy a nitro rig, but there is nothing better than a good creamy oatmeal stout properly poured through a stout faucet on beergas. Well worth the investment!
A 5lb co2 tank filled with beergas will push one, maybe two kegs. The smallest nitrogen tank generally recommended for this purpose is 20cf, which can push around 4 kegs and is physically similar in size to a 10lb co2 tank. I went with 80cf which I haven't emptied yet.
If anyone is in the market for a tank (oxygen, nitro, or co2), this guy has good deals on a variety of sizes and is great to deal with.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f16/40-20-co2-tanks-415193/
A 5lb co2 tank filled with beergas will push one, maybe two kegs. The smallest nitrogen tank generally recommended for this purpose is 20cf, which can push around 4 kegs and is physically similar in size to a 10lb co2 tank. I went with 80cf which I haven't emptied yet.
If anyone is in the market for a tank (oxygen, nitro, or co2), this guy has good deals on a variety of sizes and is great to deal with.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f16/40-20-co2-tanks-415193/
Do you really mean 'nitrogen tank' or do you mean a blend tank? It is quite possible to do it with a nitrogen tank (or nitrogen generator) which is the way an establishment serving a lot of stout (and/or other beers on mix) will do it but a blender is required (http://rapidswholesale.com/trumix-gas-blender-double-panel.html?gclid=CKm9tu3NgLwCFYl9OgodaFIAlQ). As you can see from the price tag on this device you'll have to draw a lot of stout before you recover the cost of the petrol for more frequent trips to the gas supplier!
Then it occurs to me that you could 'pressurize' your kegs to just enough pressure to move the gauge needle off the peg and wait. At equilibrium you will have about the requisite 1.2 vols depending on temperature. When ready to serve run the pressure up to 32 psig and draw the pints you want to drink. After you have pulled the pints, return the pressure to just off the peg. In the short time you will have the pressure up the extra amount of CO2 that dissolves will not be appreciable. If you are willing to go to this extra trouble for an occasional pint you don't need nitrogen, blenders, beer gas cylinders.
I'm on my fifth keg with the 5lb bottle, and haven't refilled it yet. Not sure where you're getting your info from.
That's about right. 6 Cornies is two half barrels (kegs) and a 5 lb CO2 tank full of mix will push about 2 kegs. A bottle of mix is full of gas. A bottle of CO2 is full of liquid. It holds a lot more by mass. A bottle of mix is like a bottle of CO3 after all the liquid is vaporized. When the needle starts to drop you can go another keg or two (depending on the pressure you use) before you are out.
I mean a gas blend in a high pressure tank that has the fitting generally used for nitrogen. I have heard that some places use co2 tanks for beergas, but usually it's a nitrogen tank, I forget the actual name of the fitting. As you've mentioned a gas blender is not realistic for most homebrewers.
I'm getting my info from searching this site. I read up a lot before taking the plunge myself. The relevant posts I was able to find seemed to indicate that most people were getting 3 kegs from a 20cf tank of beergas, 4 if they naturally carbonate in the keg beforehand. If you're getting more, that's cool.
A lot of bad information here. As some others have said, Nitrogen will not go into the beer at any appreciable amount, it is only used to push the beer through the tap. The tap itself has a restrictor disk, if you tried to serve with just CO2 at standard carbonating pressure (say 8 psi for a stout) the disk provides enough resistance that you'd only get the smallest trickle from the tap.
In order to force the beer through that disk, you need much higher pressure backing it around 25 psi. If you were to do this with CO2 alone, it would way over carbonate the beer at that pressure.
Because of nitrogen's inability to so into solution (well, it does, but at these pressures and temperatures it is negligible) it becomes a perfect option for pushing beer with a lot of pressure without causing issues.
Beer gas is a mixture of co2 and nitrogen. Basically, a pressure is chosen that will cause the co2 to carbonate the beer, and the nitrogen to push. There's some thermodynamics here (henry's law, dalton's law), but suffice to say this is the best option. Serving a beer with pure nitrogen can cause it to go flat eventually. This seems a bit counterintuitive, because people want to believe that the nitrogen holds the co2 in solution, but it is not the case (see aforementioned laws).
But why do we need that pressure? The faucet restrictor disk degasses the beer slightly and produces a thick creamy head. Do you need a stout tap? Maybe. You can actually get the same effect with a syringe, so maybe give that a try and see how you like it
In order to force the beer through that disk, you need much higher pressure backing it around 25 psi. If you were to do this with CO2 alone, it would way over carbonate the beer at that pressure.
Because of nitrogen's inability to so into solution (well, it does, but at these pressures and temperatures it is negligible) it becomes a perfect option for pushing beer with a lot of pressure without causing issues.
Beer gas is a mixture of co2 and nitrogen. Basically, a pressure is chosen that will cause the co2 to carbonate the beer, and the nitrogen to push. There's some thermodynamics here (henry's law, dalton's law), but suffice to say this is the best option. Serving a beer with pure nitrogen can cause it to go flat eventually. This seems a bit counterintuitive, because people want to believe that the nitrogen holds the co2 in solution, but it is not the case (see aforementioned laws).
But why do we need that pressure? The faucet restrictor disk degasses the beer slightly and produces a thick creamy head. Do you need a stout tap? Maybe. You can actually get the same effect with a syringe, so maybe give that a try and see how you like it
That's why, as I pointed out in #20, you store the beer at 1 psig CO2 and raise the CO2 pressure to 32 only when serving restoring to 1 when finished. Doing that gives you all the benefits of your stout faucet w/o having to fiddle with gas blends or nitrogen. Of course it's a PITA to be bleeding and pressurizing every time you want a glass of stout. A blender is much more convenient.
Some of my keg lids leak below 5 psi or so. I know that's not the point, but it's probably something to consider for many. Be sure to check for leaks if you plan on going with that method.
It certainly would be. It's been years since I used Corny's and had thus forgotten about that annoying aspect of them. The problem is that the O-rings get hard with cold and age. The solution is a soft silicone O-ring but the bloody things were about $19 apiece years ago when I looked at them (IIRC and it's been a few years). I wonder how long it will be before home brewers discover Petainers - the 'one way kegs' which are finding their way onto the craft brewing scene.
There's a thread somewhere on here about those, they look promising for sure. I would take a serious look if I was just getting started with kegging.
