Electric Brewing Supply 30A BCS Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Ramping fast with HERMS? You?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-30-2009, 02:14 AM   #1
Yorg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 168
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Ramping fast with HERMS? You?

If you are ramping at greater than 1C per minute in a HERMS setup, what are the design elements that allow you to do it?

(Please don't turn this into a HERMS can or can't do step mashing - I've read enough on that elsewhere. I really just want to hear from people who actually do step with it.)

Thanks.

__________________
Yorg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-30-2009, 03:47 AM   #2
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 22,103
Liked 1012 Times on 677 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

The design element would be running the temperature of the water about 10F higher than your next step temp.

__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!

New Stuff?
Bobby_M is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 01:19 AM   #3
Yorg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 168
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Sorry Bobby, by "design elements" I meant aspects of the design that would allow the mash (not the outlet) temperature to ramp at greater than 1C (or approx 2F).

(1C seems to be what most HERMS users are happy with - but I would like to achieve a greater ramp rate.)

Cheers.

__________________
Yorg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 01:28 AM   #4
The Pol
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,616
Liked 54 Times on 51 Posts

Default

I THINK that BobbyM meant... it isnt so much design, as it is how you configure it to run. You have to overshoot the HERMS outlet temp. a certain degree to make it happen, and almost ANY HERMS is capable of doing that. The OUTLET temp. must overshoot your target MASH temp. to a degree to get the MASH temp to increase quickly.

Not so much design, just how you run it.

__________________
The Pol is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 12:01 PM   #5
Yorg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 168
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

You know, the other 'design element' I'm thinking may be part of the solution of a fast ramp without an unduly high difference between mash target and HEX outlet is the flow rate.
Faster flow rate.
This seems to be a limiting factor in current HERMS designs.

__________________
Yorg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 12:07 PM   #6
The Pol
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,616
Liked 54 Times on 51 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorg View Post
You know, the other 'design element' I'm thinking may be part of the solution of a fast ramp without an unduly high difference between mash target and HEX outlet is the flow rate.
Faster flow rate.
This seems to be a limiting factor in current HERMS designs.
Flow rate is a limiting factor, but there is a finite speed at which you can recirculate without getting the false bottom or manifold stuck. From the testing that has been done here, pumping right up to that threshold didnt offer much in increased speed of the step up.

Increased speed will equal less heat transfer in the HERMS coil of course. If you have a long enough coil in the HLT, you will still get a suitable rise in temp in the coil.

All I know is that there have been many designs, many attempts with RIMS and HERMS and this question of "how" exists years later.

I personally dont step mash with my HERMS, it is much easier and faster to do a quick water transfer from the HLT to step up the MLT.

I think that just about every limiting factor has been discussed in onthis board, but in most cases no one will build anything to test it, so practical answers are not available.
__________________
The Pol is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 01:16 PM   #7
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 22,103
Liked 1012 Times on 677 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

Patience Pol, I'll be messing with HERMS and RIMS plenty when I finish my kitchen project. I agree with you in theory though. A lot more people talk way more than they build.

__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!

New Stuff?
Bobby_M is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 01:19 PM   #8
The Pol
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,616
Liked 54 Times on 51 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
Patience Pol, I'll be messing with HERMS and RIMS plenty when I finish my kitchen project. I agree with you in theory though. A lot more people talk way more than they build.
I look forward to seeing your work BobbbyM.

Yes there is lots of talk, very little action. I am certain that I could use anti-matter to reach a step faster, anyone have any idea how much I will need?

Thanks in advance.
__________________
The Pol is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 02:20 PM   #9
Lil' Sparky
Cowboys EAC
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Lil' Sparky's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 4,013
Liked 50 Times on 33 Posts

Default

It's not my system, so I can't answer detailed Q's, but in another thread, seveener said he could quickly step with his HERMS (122º to 151º in 10 minutes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveneer View Post
IMHO, a reasonable flow (not too fast), small volume heat exchanger and a fairly large electric element (controlled according to the temperature of wort exiting it) is the recipe for success.

This will give a system that circulates all the wort through the heat exchanger within say 2-3 minutes, maintains the heat in the heat exchanger and prevents the wort from being overheated.

/Phil.
Here's a link to his brewery details. Phil's HERMS Brewery
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffman2 View Post
I dub this beer the Double Slutty Triple Nutty Bodacious Booty Brunette!
Lil' Sparky is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 03:00 PM   #10
The Pol
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,616
Liked 54 Times on 51 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Sparky View Post
It's not my system, so I can't answer detailed Q's, but in another thread, seveener said he could quickly step with his HERMS (122º to 151º in 10 minutes).



Here's a link to his brewery details. Phil's HERMS Brewery
Yeah, ask him, he is the only person I have seen in three years that can get 3F per minute rise in the MLT.

I have seen others who have tested this and not gotten the same result. They have measured the HERMS outlet temp. being equal to thier target MLT temp and they got about 1.5F/minute max. in the step. The step rate slows greatly as you approach the HERMS outlet temp. in thier tests.
__________________

The Pol is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ramping up fermentation temps? CharlosCarlies Fermentation & Yeast 8 08-31-2009 05:54 PM
Herms Gabe Equipment/Sanitation 20 01-11-2008 05:23 PM
Ramping a yeast starter (revisited) Dycokac General Techniques 6 12-28-2007 05:02 PM
Yeast Ramping Procedure? Khirsah17 General Techniques 4 12-24-2007 12:17 AM
Herms Biermann General Techniques 6 06-01-2006 01:10 AM