Need some March pump guidance

Ok, I'm feeling pretty dumb here, so I could use a little direction.

Here's my rig. Water from the BK comes in from the right side of the picture, pump outlet is straight up with a ball valve:



So I hook up the hoses with 4 gallons of water in the BK. Open the valve on the BK and the valve on the pump. My understanding is this should prime the pump, but I think I just came to the realization why it isn't. There's still a water column in the output hose, which is higher than the BK, preventing the liquid in the BK from coming down the line. Let me try lowering that end of the hose and get back to you

While I'm doing that, are there any tricks to getting - and keeping - the pump primed? Lowering the output end of the hose may not always be feasible, like if I'm using it to recirculate boiling wort.

Thanks!

-Joe

Yes, that got things flowing...for about a second. I have to be doing something wrong; if everyone had this much trouble no one would own one of these things.

-Joe

Joe,

You have to let the liquid flow until there are no air pockets.

One thing you can do later is to install a "T" on the outlet. Make it a 1/2" through with a 1/4" for the "T". Install a 1/4" ball valve on the "T".

That way you can open the 1/4" valve to flood the pump head. Once the pump head is full, you can close the valve and turn on the motor and everything should flow just fine.

The March pump will NOT work with any air in the inlet hose. Make sure there are no kinks in your hose to restrict flow in either the inlet or outlet.

If it will not hold it's prime if you have an air leak on the inlet side.Had this problem for a while until I found the leak

Welcome to the march pump learning curve. One thing that I do at the beginning of brew day is attach a garden hose and forcefully flood the pump head. From there, I do my best not to run the pump dry. The Pol is one of the few people that has the pump mounted motor up, pump head down and he claims he has absolutely no problem.

I've only used my pump once so far and I had pretty good success with it. One thing from your photo that jumps out is that your inlet hose goes down from the BK below the pump inlet and back up. Seems like it would work better if it just flowed down without having to come back up. (shorter hose)


edit - btw , why not give me one of your sarcastic replies, I just love those.

Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll just keep at it. More practice tomorrow. I just can't see how I'm going to prime the pump without scalding myself if I have to lower the output fitting to get it to go.

Bobby, do you ever switch the inlet connection for the pump? You'd have to re-prime it then, no?

-Joe

samc said:

I've only used my pump once so far and I had pretty good success with it. One thing from your photo that jumps out is that your inlet hose goes down from the BK below the pump inlet and back up. Seems like it would work better if it just flowed down without having to come back up. (shorter hose)


edit - btw , why not give me one of your sarcastic replies, I just love those.

Click to expand...

"One of my" sarcastic replies? You mean like the one where I thanked you for your response but politely pointed out it didn't answer my question? Or a different sarcastic reply?

Back on topic, I did try keeping the line as a straight shot down to the pump and it didn't help. I think more practice is in order.

-Joe

Switch the location of the BK to the other side closer to the pump, shorten the hose between the BK and the pump and eliminate the low loop of hose at the same time. I don't know what size hose you are using, but generally bigger is better and shorter is better especially on the suction side of the pump. Install a small bleeder valve on the output side of the pump tee'd off before the flow control valve. You have little positive suction head to the pump from the BK because there is not a lot of height difference between the two. More would be better and ease some of your priming problems. Just because you have the rack, don't feel confined to keep everything on it while brewing. The burner and propane tank, for instance, could be on the floor rather than on the stand. IOW, you could raise the height of the BK using something other than the wire rack. Similarly, you could lower the pump and gain positive suction head. I never have priming problems anymore, and haven't for years.

Thanks for the advice, Catt. I'm hoping to keep things on the rack to make my brewday that much easier, so if I can't get the pump to work in this configuration I'm going to have to build something new. I will see if I can shorten up the input line or raise the BK. I can't shorten the line too much as I need to reach the HLT on the far left.

Catt22 said:

I never have priming problems anymore, and haven't for years.

Click to expand...

Are you using the bleeder valve you mentioned, or have you just gotten your system to the point that it just works without needing it?

Thanks,

-Joe

Yes, I am using a bleeder valve. My pump is mounted on a separate portable swivel base with the pump mounted vertically, pump head down.



The movable pump base lets me conveniently position the pump close to the source and low. Close to the source translates to a short suction hose which is good. The length of the hose on the output side of the pump is not nearly as critical as the suction side is. I can usually prime the pump without actually turning it on.

nostalgia said:

Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll just keep at it. More practice tomorrow. I just can't see how I'm going to prime the pump without scalding myself if I have to lower the output fitting to get it to go.

Bobby, do you ever switch the inlet connection for the pump? You'd have to re-prime it then, no?

-Joe

Click to expand...

I switch the inlet just about every step in the process. If you leave both hoses held up, the liquid will stay in the head and in the tubing loop. It also helps to close the pump outlet valve all the way when moving the from/to connections. Also, keeping the air out of the inlet tube is important. I like to crack the valve open on the "from" vessel for a second to flush the air bubble out of the siphon tube, then I connect the pump QD.

Thanks for the advice guys. Some good food for experimentation. Off to make a mess in my garage

-Joe

Ok, I think I'm getting the hang of it. Here's where I'm at:

Purge a little liquid from the BK to burp the diptube.
Connect the pump to the BK, open valves on BK and pump.
Move output hose around until liquid fills intake hose.
Close valve on pump (I think this was the biggest help)
Turn on pump.
Open valve on pump.
Remember that you left output hose on the floor.



I also learned that I can pump from the bottom up - i.e. connect the output hose to the valve on my HLT. That will certainly be nicer than hanging it over the lip and hoping it doesn't fall out. I can also have a *much* shorter output hose and save on some spaghetti.

Thanks again for all the input. I <3 HBT

-Joe

nostalgia said:

I also learned that I can pump from the bottom up - i.e. connect the output hose to the valve on my HLT. That will certainly be nicer than hanging it over the lip and hoping it doesn't fall out. I can also have a *much* shorter output hose and save on some spaghetti.

Click to expand...

Yes, that's the way to do it. Pump into the HLT through the outlet valvle. It's slightly more efficient doing it that way as you need not lift the water as high to get over the side of the cooler. You will soon appreciate the shorter suction side hose.

Hey all, thanks again for the guidance. I've made the inlet hose as short as I can to have it still reach my BK and MLT. The big change I just made is adding a bleeder valve. I found this nifty acetal hose bibb valve when I was ordering the other bits n' pieces from McMaster-Carr. It was a great deal less expensive than the brass needle valves - $6.87. The stainless fittings - 1/2" NPT tee and close nipple - were surprisingly cheap, too: $3.38 and $2.11.



Tested it out and it seems to work - at least with cold water. Hot water seems to change the equation, so I'll have to give that a test when I have some time.

I also switched from worm drive clamps to these squeeze-together nylon clamps. Since the silicone hose is so soft, the stainless clamps really deformed it. These seem to be a lot better and are really easy to use.



-Joe

It appears from the pic that you have a reducer coupling attached to the pump suction inlet with a hose barb attached to the coupling. The inside diameter of that barb is probably 3/8" or less. This will cause a restriction on the pump suction side which is not recommended and can reduce the pump performance. Sure, it will probably work, but it's not the optimum configuration. Ideally, no hose or fitting with an ID less than the pump inlet should be used. It makes a significant difference all the way around IMO.

Catt22 said:

It appears from the pic that you have a reducer coupling attached to the pump suction inlet with a hose barb attached to the coupling. The inside diameter of that barb is probably 3/8" or less. This will cause a restriction on the pump suction side which is not recommended and can reduce the pump performance. Sure, it will probably work, but it's not the optimum configuration. Ideally, no hose or fitting with an ID less than the pump inlet should be used. It makes a significant difference all the way around IMO.

Click to expand...

The pump inlet is 3/4" pipe, and the s/s reducer brings it down to 1/2" pipe with a 1/2" hose nipple. The fittings on the kettle are all 1/2", so it's all the same.

Thanks,

-Joe

Then it's not as restrictive as I first thought, but what is the ID of that hose barb? That could still present a restriction if it's less than the ID of the pump inlet. Inside diameter is the critical dimension. Bigger is better on that side of the pump.

Hose barbs are rarely the same diameter as the hose, A 1/2 hose barb typically has about a 7/16 ID, sometimes less. QD's will be a much more restrictive then the barbs. That is why I hard plumped my rig with 1/2 tubing the only restrictions (minus right angles and t's unavoidable) I have are the QD's I use on the BK and the RIC. Primes everytime, hot or cold.

I'd bet that if Nostalgia raised his BK 6 more inches and keeps the hose above the height of the pump inlet, it would help a ton

So good luck.

This will really help me when I get home and re-configure my pump. Thanks for asking and all the help!

I just finished mashing in, using the bleeder valve live for the first time. It worked a treat!

I can't believe I didn't think of this before, but I got the pump primed and ready to go while my strike water was heating instead of waiting until it was up to temp.

I opened the bleeder valve and the valve on the kettle and let the water run until it was a solid stream with no bubbles. I caught the water in a small bucket. I then turned the pump on and pumped some water into the bucket to make sure everything was Kosher. I dumped the bucket back into the kettle.

Then when it was time to mash in, everything was ready to rock. Turn the pump on, open the output valve and magic! It worked perfectly.

-Joe