Oatmeal Stout Yooper's Oatmeal Stout

[MagicMatt]

I added a rehydrated s05 4 days ago and still at 1.022. The tatse is amazballs. Just lower abv than i hoped. As long as there is no chance for bottle bombs i will add the oak then bottle.

Sounds about right - mine usually come out around 1.024 but I add 8oz of lactose in the boil.

What was your OG?

 

[Rush]

So I'm new to all-grain and this is my second BIAB batch. I probably shouldn't have, since this recipe sounds amazing as-is, but I was wanting a stronger stout anyways, so I figured I'd just boost this recipe up. I brewed this yesterday and overshot my volume slightly and ended up with 6 gallons instead of 5.25 and an OG of 1.074 instead of 1.085.

Here's my recipe:

Extra Yooper Oatmeal Stout


Method: BIAB
Style: Imperial Stout
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 6 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.060 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

Original Gravity: 1.075
Final Gravity: 1.020
ABV (standard): 7.1%
IBU (tinseth): 44.13
SRM (morey): 35.95

Fermentables

Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
10.5 lb United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale 38 3.75 63.6%
1.5 lb Flaked Oats 33 2.2 9.1%
1.125 lb American - Victory 34 28 6.8%
0.9375 lb United Kingdom - Pale Chocolate 33 207 5.7%
0.75 lb Flaked Barley 32 2.2 4.5%
0.75 lb American - Roasted Barley 33 300 4.5%
0.75 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 80L 33 80 4.5%
0.1875 lb American - Chocolate 29 350 1.1%
16.5 lb Total

Other

3OZ solid cocoa liquor @ flameout

Hops

Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
1 oz Warrior Pellet 14.3 Boil 60 min 41.53
1 oz Willamette Pellet 4.5 Boil 5 min 2.61

Yeast: Denny's Favorite 1450 with a 2 liter starter

I know this is quite a reach from the original recipe, but the grain bill is the same, increased by about 50% so hopefully I can still see what the hoopla is. I'll post results once finished in 6 weeks or so.

 

[MagicMatt]

So I'm new to all-grain and this is my second BIAB batch. I probably shouldn't have, since this recipe sounds amazing as-is, but I was wanting a stronger stout anyways, so I figured I'd just boost this recipe up. I brewed this yesterday and overshot my volume slightly and ended up with 6 gallons instead of 5.25 and an OG of 1.074 instead of 1.085.

But the recipe you noted has a batch volume listed of 6g and 1.075.....so it seems like you actually hit your numbers almost perfectly.

 

[Rush]

But the recipe you noted has a batch volume listed of 6g and 1.075.....so it seems like you actually hit your numbers almost perfectly.

Goal was 5.25, I updated the recipe to show what I actually poured into the fermenter instead of what my goal was.

 

[arnobg]

Brewed this a couple times and loved it. Unfortunately I only have about 20 IBU's worth of Willamette.

Any recommendations for other hops to use instead or in addition to the Willamette?

I have Fuggle, Tettnang, Saaz, Galaxy and many American varieties such as Chinook, Warrior, Cascade, Centennial.

 

[brewbama]

Brewed this a couple times and loved it. Unfortunately I only have about 20 IBU's worth of Willamette.



Any recommendations for other hops to use instead or in addition to the Willamette?



I have Fuggle, Tettnang, Saaz, Galaxy and many American varieties such as Chinook, Warrior, Cascade, Centennial.

Fuggle or Tettnang per the AHA https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/hop-substitutions/

 

[Murphys_Law]

Just kegged this and it finished at 1.023 using 1450. I fermented in the mid 60's and then raised the temp to 70 for a few days before packaging.

Predicted FG was 1.014. Big miss! Seems like a few others have gotten low attenuation with this yeast??

My Predicted OG was 1.052 and I hit 1.053.

 

[brew_darrymore]

Same experience with WY1450.

OG: 1.050, FG: 1.020. Mashed for 60' @ 154F. Fermenting at 65-66F for 3 days. Fermentation has slowed down quite a bit and krausen is gone, so I let temperature free rise to 70 for another 14 days. Kegged after 18 days.

Beer is good though.

 

[schematix]

I brewed this last Monday and used 1450. OG came in at 12.9 Plato (1.052) and it was at 1.020 at the 5 day mark when i kegged it (i carbonate naturally in keg with the remaining sugars). FFT indicated it would finish at 3.7 Plato (1.015). I fermented for 5 days at 64. I used a second generation 1450 from a starter that had been crashed about 24 hours prior to pitching.

I mashed for a total closer to 2 hours though and used a modified hockhurz with a beta glucanase rest.

 

[Kampenken]

Same high FF results here with 1450. Thinking next time to raise ferment temp to 72 after 3 days to help fully attenuate.

 

[thunderwagn]

Same here. Mashed 156 for 90 min. Fermented at 62f for 18 days. OG 1.052 and FG 1.024. 1.75L starter Denny's fav 50. I can live with the lower abv, but wished I could've pushed a bit more out of it. Gave it a bit of a swirl at 18 days and pushed temps up to 64 for another 10 days, but never would drop below the 1.024.

 

[bbohanon]

For those struggling with hitting FG numbers regardless of the batch..Here are some ideas to help with your next brew session in regards to stouts and porters (most of this is good advice for any batch you brew honestly)..YMMV

Make sure you are pitching enough yeast and I have found with the darker beers (especially stouts or imperial stouts) doing the following helps to improve hitting the final numbers and getting my beer to be all it can be:

- Use yeast nutrient..it really helps get the yeast to maximize fermentation and get the attenuation where it needs to be. Craft breweries use it all the time and its a cheap addition to help keep the yeasties happy and chewing sugars.

- Mashing a bit lower - I usually mash my stouts no higher than 152 with a longer, slower 168 deg sparge (I fly sparge) to produce more fermentable sugars (beta-amylase/simple sugar) in the wort.

- Again, pitch enough yeast! This is the number one problem I had when starting brewing. Always make sure you pitch properly and at the right temp (pitching too hot or too cold can and will stress or worse kill your yeast!)..your beer will thank you for it. If you are using liquid yeast and not doing proper starters, you need to be. Dry yeast, I have adopted pitching a pack and a half to 2 packs per 5 gal batch. Its much harder to overpitch than it is to underpitch. Trust me.

- Make sure you are hitting the proper Mash PH (for the all grainers). 5.2-5.5 is your target for maximum conversion.

Just some ideas for those missing your FG numbers..

 

[thunderwagn]

Hmm, not sure I'm necessarily struggling. Usually spot on with my numbers. Maybe I need to rethink some of my process. Thanks for the advice.

 

[MagicMatt]

I just did my 2nd batch of this using Denny's 1450 a couple of weeks ago. I'll check out the FG when I keg it in another couple of weeks, but in my experience the 1335 always got me to my expected FG (6 batches, all fully attenuated), and it seems like Denny's just has a lower attenuation than expected. It's the only thing that's changed in my recipe and process. If this batch comes out a little high too, and taking into account other similar experiences noted in this thread, I'd lean toward that being the case.

 

[schematix]

It's not the yeast, it's your fermentable sugar profile.

 

[MagicMatt]

It's not the yeast, it's your fermentable sugar profile.

I disagree.....if so, then how do you explain the discrepancy between 1335 and 1450 on the same beer?

 

[JB_Brewing2]

Just brewed this on Xmas Day for the third time using Yooper's original recipe. Scaled up to 10 gallons. Quite the tasty stout!

 

[schematix]

I disagree.....if so, then how do you explain the discrepancy between 1335 and 1450 on the same beer?

Different yeasts handle different sugars differently.

In my experience Denny's has a tendency to finisher slightly higher than many other yeasts for the same recipe and mash profile. To me that is why it's so great for a neutral ale yeast because it leave some body.... but it's possible to get it lower by varying the mash temps and time.

Try doughing in slowly at 131 (target about 10 minutes), then immediately ramp to 144 and hold for 40 minutes, then ramp to 161 and hold for 30 minutes, then ramp to 170 and hold for 10 minutes. I guarantee you'll get both attenuation and body with this profile.

 

[MagicMatt]

Lol....uh, so now you're agreeing with me?

...it seems like Denny's just has a lower attenuation than expected. It's the only thing that's changed in my recipe and process.

It's not the yeast, it's your fermentable sugar profile.

Different yeasts handle different sugars differently.

In my experience Denny's has a tendency to finisher slightly higher than many other yeasts for the same recipe and mash profile.

:smack:

 

[schematix]

Lol....uh, so now you're agreeing with me?

:smack:

No. To be clear i'm saying Denny's attenuates less than other ale yeasts, but not so much that it would explain finishing >1.020 for this recipe. It's a point or two at the most difference.

 

[MagicMatt]

Well I add lactose to the recipe so I'm expected to finish at 1.020 I believe, and end up at 1.024. So it's not as big of a swing as you think, only about 4 points. My comments were in relation to 1335, and how Denny's does exactly what you expressed - finishes a few points higher.

 

[cheesebach]

Add me to the list of those with a high FG using Denny's on a batch that I just kegged 2 weeks ago. Mashed at 155 with a measured pH of 5.48, OG came in at 1.053, and FG ended at 1.022. I started my fermentation at 62F with a 1.5L starter of Denny's and slowly raised it up to 64F over the first 5 days and let it stay at 64F for another 10 days.

Wouldn't the sudden surge of mentions of high FG with this yeast and this recipe in the past few weeks be more likely to indicate a change in the behavior of the yeast being shipped by Wyeast than several different brewers making "mistakes" with this recipe and/or yeast in the past month? If we have to start making changes to the mash temps, adding rests, lowering the target mash pH, etc. to get to the target FG with this recipe and yeast, that certainly suggests a change in the characteristics of this particular yeast coming from the supplier IMO.

 

[TallDan]

Wouldn't the sudden surge of mentions of high FG with this yeast and this recipe in the past few weeks be more likely to indicate a change in the behavior of the yeast being shipped by Wyeast than several different brewers making "mistakes" with this recipe and/or yeast in the past month?

A few people chiming in on an online forum to complain about low attenuation on a strain that is relatively low attenuating is far from what I would have consider statistically significant. Even with absolutely no knowledge of wyeast's QC process, I trust it more than that.

Not saying it's impossible, but I would anticipate that wyeast gets reasonable feedback and data from commercial customers that is far more reliable than some observations from homebrewers.

So yes, id say it's far more likely that several homebrewers had measurement or process mistakes in a month than wyeast is having problems with the yeast.

 

[cheesebach]

A few people chiming in on an online forum to complain about low attenuation on a strain that is relatively low attenuating is far from what I would have consider statistically significant. Even with absolutely no knowledge of wyeast's QC process, I trust it more than that.
.

Without knowing what their QC process is on a per-batch basis, whether they split batches between homebrew smack-packs and commercial orders, it's really impossible to know what the likelihood of a process excursion making it out into the market is. It's also possible that something unusual happened during shipment or storage at a major homebrew supply store that negatively affected the yeast and contributed to the reports in the past 2 weeks on this thread.

I'm not disagreeing at all that we can modify aspects of this recipe in the mash or fermentation to get a more fermentable profile that gets down to the expected FG with WY1450. But homebrewers have been using this yeast and following this recipe for going on 4 years. From what I can tell, it looks like more than half of the reports of people ending up with a FG >1.020 with WY1450 have come within the past 2-3 weeks. Either it's been common all this time to end with a FG > 1.020 with this yeast/recipe and it's just been under-reported until recently, or something has changed that is causing people to experience higher FG with this yeast in the recent months.

For myself, all of my other brews over the past couple years have come in at or slightly under the target FG, so changing my process to improve attenuation based on 1 outlier data point wouldn't make any sense. More than likely, I'll try this recipe with WY1335 next time and see what kind of results I get.

 

[TallDan]

Without knowing what their QC process is on a per-batch basis, whether they split batches between homebrew smack-packs and commercial orders, it's really impossible to know what the likelihood of a process excursion making it out into the market is. It's also possible that something unusual happened during shipment or storage at a major homebrew supply store that negatively affected the yeast and contributed to the reports in the past 2 weeks on this thread.

Homebrewers all have different processes and different levels of skill, and even the most active homebrewers are only brewing a batch or two a week on average. Wyeast has tightly controlled processes to be able to reliably produce the same yeast in every single package and do it EVERY DAY.

Again, not saying that a problem from wyeast is impossible or even improbable. I'm just saying that it's far more likely in my estimation that three people missed their mash temps, underpitched, had poorly calibrated thermometers, didn't measure accurately or just weren't paying that close of attention to their mash.

 

[A2HB]

I was going to suggest mashing lower and also recalibrating thermometers as possible solutions. Also I'd try raising your D rest to 70 or even 72

 

[cheesebach]

In all likelihood, we'll probably never know. If there was an issue with a batch of WY1450 smack-packs, Wyeast has probably already found out about it and corrected it. All I can do is speak for myself in saying I did all of the right steps any good homebrewer would follow, got the measurements I expected, and didn't get the end result I was hoping for with respect to FG.

I followed the Mr. Malty calculator for starter size, used my stir plate, used a fresh smack pack that was under 2 months old, hit my mash temp of 155F, stirred once at 30 min, measured a mash temp of 153F at the end of my mash. Calibrated my ph meter and measured a mash pH of 5.48. Pitched my yeast at 62F and slowly raised to 64F and left it in primary for a total of 18 days.

If my other beers were having similar problems, I might check things like my thermometer calibration, the probe calibration in my fermentation chamber, etc. and might have a good shot at finding something. Given the number of other similar reports in a short time frame, however, I just think that it makes more sense to get more data either from either brewing the same recipe with a different yeast or maybe even a more recent batch of the same yeast to get another data point before making adjustments to a recipe that has been working for many different brewers for several years.

 

[Garmoni]

I just brewed this a a few months ago and used S04. Ended up with 1.022 final gravity. I did add some cocoa powder at the end of the boil so I'm not sure if that would have an impact or not.

 

[brew_darrymore]

I was going to suggest mashing lower and also recalibrating thermometers as possible solutions. Also I'd try raising your D rest to 70 or even 72

My fermenter stayed at 70F for 14 days.

OG: 1.050, FG: 1.020, yeast: WY1450. Mash temp: 154F

For me, WY1450 just doesn't attenuate that well.



Disclaimer: I have used that yeast only 4 times.

 

[Oldskewl]

Is anyone using yeast nutrient that is hitting the target FG? Just a thought.