yellow natural gas flame on my Brutus 10

[nicksteck]

i think a range reg. is rated for around 40,000 btu, but you would need 3 of them for all your burners, they are a fixed set pressure. if you bumped down the pressure before you branch out you could put in a maxi-trol reg that you can adjust the pressure on it. you would need a monometer to set the pressure, you can find cheap plastic ones that you put water in it and you see how far down the gas is pushing the water in a tube that has the inches marked on the side of the tube, you are really measuring the inches of water column

hope this helps

p.s. im starting my brutus 10 this year so i mite be pickin your brain

 

[billtzk]

Thanks for your help nicksteck. Feel free to pick my brain when you are ready to build your Brutus 10. There are a number of people on this forum who have built one too, and I've learned a lot from them as well. Much information is distilled in the giant Brutus Ten ???? thread.

I found some Maxitrol regulators on www.burnerparts.com. They don't give much in the way of specs there. There are several sizes, but the 1 inch and 1/2 inch items are the possible options for my setup.

There are two 1 inch versions, one being $354 and the other $55. The more expensive one says it has a 3" to 6" WC plated spring. I assume that means it can be adjusted to output from 3" to 6". The cheaper unit is a 2 psi inlet model with 4" to 12" violet spring. I don't know what to make of the "violet" but I guess that means it can be adjusted from 4" to 12" outlet pressure. At $300 lower cost, the 4" to 12" model seems like a good deal. If set for minimum outlet pressure it would come close to your recommended 3.5". If I used a 1 inch regulator I'd have to install it between the gas meter and my lock-box shutoff valve, so I'd have to shut my main gas off again and make a new cut. That's a lot of work I'd just as soon avoid.

There are three 1/2 inch models ranging in price from $21 to $36. They would be easier for me to install since I could put one of them on the gas manifold inlet right on the stand. That's before it branches out, so I wouldn't have to have one per burner. The web site doesn't give specs so I'll have to do some more research to determine if any of them are adjustable and if they would be suitable.

Are these the sort of regulators you were talking about? EDIT: I found some specs in PDF documents on this www.advancedboiler.com site. The PDFs are Capacity Charts for Gas Pressure Regulators, and Spring Selection Chart. (Now I know what the violet spring refers to.) Which of these would be most suitable to regulate at the 1/2 inch manifold inlet?

As a more expensive alternative, but one that might be appealing for the sake of convertibility, I also found this AGS10 Natural Gas or Propane regulator (halfway down the page) on the www.antiquegasstoves.com site that allows for easy conversion back and forth between NG and LP without having to rejet. It handles up to 110,000 BTU/hr and outputs at 4" for NG and 10" for LP. It's designed for stoves. I don't know if this would work for these jet burners, but if it did, it might interest someone who wanted the ability to run their rig off either LP or NG.

 

[nicksteck]

do you have a local appliance parts store, just ask them for a nat. gas reg. for a stove, i bet you wouldnt pay more than $20 a peice, buy 3 and call it done

 

[billtzk]

do you have a local appliance parts store, just ask them for a nat. gas reg. for a stove, i bet you wouldnt pay more than $20 a peice, buy 3 and call it done

It makes more sense to me to use a single $20 to $30 appliance or line pressure regulator designed for outdoor use than to use three $20 stove regulators designed for indoor use that will limit my burner output to less than a third of their rated output.

But anyway, thanks for your help and recommendations. It's enough to get me going.

 

[nicksteck]

hey did that take care of the problem, got a new guy i think with the same problem?

 

[nicksteck]

please let me know

 

[billtzk]

Hey nicksteck, sorry. I didn't notice your update.

I haven't tried the regulator yet. I bought a 12 foot 1/2 inch quick disconnect hose but I haven't hooked it up yet. It is supposed to cause about 1.3 inch WC drop in pressure, so I want to see what the effect of that is before I try the regulator.

It'll take me a while. I'm still working on other parts of my system.

 

[Henway]

I'm the new guy on the thread that asked the questions via email. Nick, thanks very much for the advice.

First, I got the Knight CO sensor/alarm that shows CO on a digital display and keeps a record. About $60 at Home Depot and it seems like a VERY smart idea.

I asked about the NG regulators at HD, Lowes, and a few appliance shops and never got to a person who knew what the heck I was talking about.

I chose not to brew until I get this settled.

Googling for 1/2 NPT natural gas regulator give me several options:
http://www.fixitshop.com/Merchant2/...re_Code=Applianceparts&Product_Code=GAS-01022

This seems to be a "popular" response. Could anyone comment on either if this is what I should use or what they've used with good results?

Using this, I assume I put it before the gas ball valve. Then do I just "fiddle" with the screw until my 100% open ball valve gets me my max available flame?

I made the assumption this would be be as easy as just hooking up the 23 jet burner to the line. There isn't much googleable information about this, so I was surprised it was an issue. That's the problem with assumptions...

 

[Bobby_M]

I've been running my burners directly off the line with some simple gate valves as the individual on/off and flame control. I don't know if these regulators are required or not because frankly I assumed they would run just fine on 7 W.C. (about 1/2 psi) which is what your home's regulator is already set to.

I'd be curious about the $26 reg that you linked to but I'm not curious enough to buy one and try it.

I think individual installations are going to vary the net pressure drop by the time you get to the brew rig. I don't think its a good way to regulate the pressure intentionally, but it could explain many people do OK without the regs.

 

[billtzk]

Bobby, 1 PSI = 27.7612 inches of water column, so 7 inch WC is more like 1/4 PSI. I forget this all the time and say it wrong half the time. I've resorted to googling it whenever I need to convert.

 

[Henway]

I ordered it. Hopefully it will help. I'll let ya'll know...

 

[nicksteck]

i'd say that is already set to 3.5''
\
7'' is to high!! the reason the house gas is higher (7'') is so when an appliance turns on there is little or no pressure drop. otherwise your pilot lights would go out

Nick

 

[Bobby_M]

In an effort to speak more intelligently about this stuff, I'm going to put a DIY manometer on the line just before my rig and note the closed pressure and pressure drop when all the burners are lit. Promise.

 

[Henway]

I've ordered it and though it hasn't arrived, I'll need to convert to 1/2 inch (now is 3/4") anyway, so I'll make the last 4 feet of tube @ 1/2" (vs. the current last 12")
That should cause some pressure drop and I can use the regulator when it arrives.

Still, I put the 23 tip burner at the level of the bottom of the keggle and it the yellow flames still plume around the base..

 

[Bobby_M]

That's way too close to the keg. You need to get it out of the pillow of combustion leftovers since the intakes are so close to the tips.

 

[Henway]

Let me just make sure--the flames SHOULD be blue instead of yellow? It should look like the flame from a stovetop? Just double-checking because I assume it should be blue...

 

[billtzk]

yep. It should be blue not yellow. I got much cleaner flame, mostly blue with almost no yellow, just by dropping my burners down another 2 or 2.5 inches from where I started. Like Bobby said, that gets the air intakes away from the combustion gases and down where they can draw fresh air. The tip ends are now about 4.5 inches below the keg bottom. I'm thinking of dropping them another inch, but I think I still have a bit too much pressure and might need to get one of those maxitrol regulators anyway.

 

[Henway]

Finally installed the Maxitrol. It works!
My CO detector didn't even budge from 0. The last time I tried it went to 99 in about 15 seconds. The flame is almost completely blue, but there is some yellow. I've also reduced to 1/2" NPT before the regulator and then have about 4ft of 1/2" until it reaches the burner.

Now I'll build a base for the burner that I can adjust the height for. I'll target adjustability to 2"~6" from flame tip to bottom of (recessed) keg surface.

 

[Henway]

Oh, I forgot, THANKS ALL! If it hadn't have been for you're ideas, I'd probably have carbon monoxide poisoning by now...

 

[billtzk]

Oh, I forgot, THANKS ALL! If it hadn't have been for you're ideas, I'd probably have carbon monoxide poisoning by now...

Glad to hear it worked!

Just to clarify for posterity, is this the one you bought?

REGULATOR,PRESSURE(NAT,1/2NPT) for Keating Fryers

 

[Henway]

Glad to hear it worked!

Just to clarify for posterity, is this the one you bought?

REGULATOR,PRESSURE(NAT,1/2NPT) for Keating Fryers

Yep--that's the bad boy. I should have gotten the 3/4" version for future possible secondary burner, but it works well with the single burner 23 tip I have now.

 

[ballbuster]

Hey Billtzk did u figure that out yet? Send me an email or post a response. Sounds like you are running on LP orifices, LP orifices are larger and allow more gas through than a natural orifice does. Do you have an extra regulator in line that you dont need? My jet burner does not burn worth a darn with a regulator in line, even the adjustable type.

 

[billtzk]

Hey ballbuster. I definitely have NG orifices. They are pretty big holes, and since I dropped my burners down two inches lower, I get good blue flame. LP orifices are smaller than natural gas. When you convert a propane appliance to NG, you have to drill out the orifices.

I think I might still have too much pressure on my incoming line, but I haven't tried Henway's solution of using a NG regulator to drop the pressure down further yet. What really helped in my case was oxygen. When the burners were up almost inline with the 2 inch square tubing of the frame, they were sitting in a pillow of combustion gases trapped by the keg skirt; they were oxygen starved. Dropping them down two inches let them breathe.

The main reason I still might decide to add a regulator is that I get wild billowing flame that wraps around the bottom edge of my keggles sometimes, and I don't really like that. It puts my homebrew belly at risk of becoming rendered fat.

 

[jspringer]

costco part number 978277 is a regulator and hose for converting outdoor grills up to 90000 btus from lp to ng. seems like this would be perfect.