Thanks again for the help.
Yeast starter question
- Thread starter gjsumm
- Start date
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Ok so I decant the yeast from the frig and I added 1 liter of 3.5 oz DME wort. It is now on a stir plate.How long should I keep it on this step? Also when I took it out of the frig it was chilled I decanted it then added the 70 degree new wort,will it shock the yeast? Thanks again.
Clementine
Well-Known Member
It might cause a bit of shock (but it won't kill them), if I'm decanting I will put the wort in the fridge also then add the wort when it is at the same temp. I figure this is like breakfast in bed for the yeast. They wake up and the food is right there!
Time to stir, stuff I have read conflicts with what I have observed so... reading says 24 hrs minimum anything over 36-48hrs ideal anything else is a waste of time. That said I have notice some starters stop showing any signs early than other and it is normally when pitching on smaller steps that they get the job done quicker others take longer. I'm still testing this theory but my thought is if you have the time wait the 48hrs even if nothing more appears to be happening.
Clem
Time to stir, stuff I have read conflicts with what I have observed so... reading says 24 hrs minimum anything over 36-48hrs ideal anything else is a waste of time. That said I have notice some starters stop showing any signs early than other and it is normally when pitching on smaller steps that they get the job done quicker others take longer. I'm still testing this theory but my thought is if you have the time wait the 48hrs even if nothing more appears to be happening.
Clem
Give it a good 3 days at least, actually.
Time for another lesson, LOL!
Even though all the yeast should be produced within about 12 hours, chilling and decanting has some significant differences from pitching without chilling/decanting that make it very important to be a fair bit more patient. You're putting the yeast into dormancy. When yeast goes into and comes out of dormancy, it is a pretty stressful time for it, and it depends on its stores of energy and nutrients.
Because of this, if you're going to chill and then decant, it is important to optimize yeast health by allowing it to build up reserves of glycogen and trehalose. It only starts building up glycogen reserves when it detects dormancy is imminent - that is, it waits until the remaining food supply is very low before even beginning to build up its reserves. Glycogen is not just a good source of energy for the yeast when the come out of dormancy, but it's also critical for cell maintenance during during that time. So it's critical that you let the starter ferment 100% *completely* before beginning to cool it.
Trehalose is an important stress-protectant that mostly begins to be made when the yeast is chilled. It starts quickly and builds up to optimal levels in about 48 hours. So after putting the starter in the fridge, you want to let it chill for at least two full days. It also ensures enough time for almost all the yeast to settle out.
Then, when you make one more 3.5oz/1L starter, do the same thing you already did with the 70° wort. In fact, it's the trehalose that makes this MORE than okay! Once the yeast warms up, it starts consuming the trehalose, and it won't take too long to use up almost all of it. But since THIS starter is the last step, and it's only 1L, you are best off skipping the chilling/decanting and pitching the yeast (with all the liquid) at peak activity - about 12-36 hours in. If you miss this window of time, you're best off letting it ferment completely and doing things the long way again.
———
So to summarize:
1) Ferment this starter out COMPLETELY. Give it at least 72 hours (3 full days), although if you can wait an additional day or two in order to be 100% sure, that's even better.
2) Place in fridge (ideally 35-40°) for at least 48 hours.
3) Make one more 1Liter/3.5oz starter. When you're ready to add it to the yeast (at 70° is a good temperature), take the yeast out of the fridge, decant the liquid, and add the new starter wort .
4) Ferment on stirplate for 12-36 (ideally 18-24, IMO) hours, and then pitch the whole starter into your batch of beer-to-be!
5) If you miss the 36-hour window, do steps 1-3 again, except this time pitch the yeast into your batch in the fermentor. When you decant the liquid, it'll be much easier to pitch if you keep a bit of the liquid and swirl the yeast back into suspension, and then pouring that slurry into the fermentor.
Time for another lesson, LOL!
Even though all the yeast should be produced within about 12 hours, chilling and decanting has some significant differences from pitching without chilling/decanting that make it very important to be a fair bit more patient. You're putting the yeast into dormancy. When yeast goes into and comes out of dormancy, it is a pretty stressful time for it, and it depends on its stores of energy and nutrients.
Because of this, if you're going to chill and then decant, it is important to optimize yeast health by allowing it to build up reserves of glycogen and trehalose. It only starts building up glycogen reserves when it detects dormancy is imminent - that is, it waits until the remaining food supply is very low before even beginning to build up its reserves. Glycogen is not just a good source of energy for the yeast when the come out of dormancy, but it's also critical for cell maintenance during during that time. So it's critical that you let the starter ferment 100% *completely* before beginning to cool it.
Trehalose is an important stress-protectant that mostly begins to be made when the yeast is chilled. It starts quickly and builds up to optimal levels in about 48 hours. So after putting the starter in the fridge, you want to let it chill for at least two full days. It also ensures enough time for almost all the yeast to settle out.
Then, when you make one more 3.5oz/1L starter, do the same thing you already did with the 70° wort. In fact, it's the trehalose that makes this MORE than okay! Once the yeast warms up, it starts consuming the trehalose, and it won't take too long to use up almost all of it. But since THIS starter is the last step, and it's only 1L, you are best off skipping the chilling/decanting and pitching the yeast (with all the liquid) at peak activity - about 12-36 hours in. If you miss this window of time, you're best off letting it ferment completely and doing things the long way again.
———
So to summarize:
1) Ferment this starter out COMPLETELY. Give it at least 72 hours (3 full days), although if you can wait an additional day or two in order to be 100% sure, that's even better.
2) Place in fridge (ideally 35-40°) for at least 48 hours.
3) Make one more 1Liter/3.5oz starter. When you're ready to add it to the yeast (at 70° is a good temperature), take the yeast out of the fridge, decant the liquid, and add the new starter wort .
4) Ferment on stirplate for 12-36 (ideally 18-24, IMO) hours, and then pitch the whole starter into your batch of beer-to-be!
5) If you miss the 36-hour window, do steps 1-3 again, except this time pitch the yeast into your batch in the fermentor. When you decant the liquid, it'll be much easier to pitch if you keep a bit of the liquid and swirl the yeast back into suspension, and then pouring that slurry into the fermentor.
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WHYB
Well-Known Member
With respect to adding the whole starter to your fermentor. I've had some starters have a really sour smell to them, only ever noticed this when using a stir plate. I've been hesitant to add the entire starter in these instances and instead decanted and let the yeast rise to 65-70 on brew day then added a bit of the wort to the flask (to get the yeast back into solution) and pitching that into the fermentor. Seems to work well...
That's normal, especially on a stirplate, due to heavy oxidation. Since it's only a single liter, it won't contribute anything noticeable, and pitching it at peak activity is optimal anyways. With a much bigger starter though, I'd recommend the chilling/decanting method though.
Ok I had it on the stir plate for 3.5 days and have place it in the fridge will keep in there for 2 days then friday I will add my DME and third step.There is definitely more yeast now.
Here is a question,I can get pharmicutical grade glucose ,where I work will a small amount help it any ,also I do have some yeast nutrients will adding them help?
Here is a question,I can get pharmicutical grade glucose ,where I work will a small amount help it any ,also I do have some yeast nutrients will adding them help?
gjsumm said:
Don't use the glucose... glucose is really easy for yeast to eat, and if they're given too much it can even cause them to lose their enzymes that allow them to break down more complex sugars such as maltose. Even a relatively small amount can cause the yeast to go through a different kind of fermentation. Either way, you are already using the ideal amount of sugars with the 3.5oz of DME, and even if somehow the glucose can't hurt, it can't help either, so there is really no point. Also, if you ever need to use glucose, the corn sugar/dextrose that is sold to homebrewers is also glucose, and it's good enough (as long as it's boiled first!)
As far as the nutrient... yes. It is always a good idea to use nutrient, especially in an all-extract wort, and *ESPECIALLY* in a starter. Don't bother with it right now though. But when you boil the DME for your final step-up, definitely put some in there while its boiling, which will also help disinfect it.
Good to hear that everything's going so smoothly
OK so here I am I left it in the fridge for 2 days I took it out added 3.4 DME mixture with 1/8 teaspoon of yeast nutrients and Put it on the stir plate.It is now going nuts foaming ,I took out the foam stopper because it became saturated and put in a sanitized bubble it is now foaming thru the bubbler maybe I need to put a blow off tube on it.I hope this is a good sign?
Um, it's neither good or bad, but it's an annoyance that can cause you to lose a bit of yeast. Use a blow-off if you must.
When I make my starters, to prevent foaming while boiling I always use a product called Fermcap-S. It continues to work on the stirplate, and so I NEVER get foam.
I highly recommend buying some in the future - I use it on all my starters. A couple drops will ensure it doesn't foam or boilover even a little bit. If you want, it can also be used to prevent boilovers when you're brewing a full batch of beer, and if you're worried about your beer fermenting too actively, with the krausen getting out of hand and possibly causing your fermentor to explode, a bit of the stuff in the fermentor will also prevent that.
So yeah... it's some great stuff. A little vial of Fermcap-S will last a VERY long time.
When I make my starters, to prevent foaming while boiling I always use a product called Fermcap-S. It continues to work on the stirplate, and so I NEVER get foam.
I highly recommend buying some in the future - I use it on all my starters. A couple drops will ensure it doesn't foam or boilover even a little bit. If you want, it can also be used to prevent boilovers when you're brewing a full batch of beer, and if you're worried about your beer fermenting too actively, with the krausen getting out of hand and possibly causing your fermentor to explode, a bit of the stuff in the fermentor will also prevent that.
So yeah... it's some great stuff. A little vial of Fermcap-S will last a VERY long time.
