yeast/recipe questions

[tjm02c]

sorry if this is a repeat, i don't think my first attempt posted...

I'm prepping for my first non-prepackaged brew (still extract brew) and I have a few questions. I finished reading how to brew and figured I'd give creating a recipe a shot, so I have a loose recipe for a NE style IPA. My ingredients are below:

-8 lbs alexanders pale LME (might only use 6 lbs of it, but my thought is more malt = higher OG which means higher ABV. that's very likely incorrect tho)
-1 oz simcoe (planning on doing about a 30 min boil with these)
-4 oz citra
-8 oz galaxy (going to do some kind of tbd combo of FO/multiple dry hopping with the citra/galaxy)
-white lab east coast ale yeast (WLP008)

my questions are:

-I was thinking that one pack of yeast might not be enough for all the LME I'm throwing in there, but don't know if i can find the same strain easily (bought it on the way home from xmas)...so would it be weird to mix yeast strains? I'm thinking about getting some wyeast 1318 london.
-Am I way off with my more malt more ABV thought?
-Any general comments on the recipe/plans?

Thanks

 

[LLBeanJ]

All things being equal, yes, more sugars means more alcohol.

Not sure about mixing yeasts. I mean, sure, you can do it, just not sure how it would turn out. Could be fine, could be not so fine. I'd just use your vial of WLP008 and make a starter. Since you have extra extract anyway, just sanitize a growler, add about 1/4 lb LME boiled in about 1200 ml water for 5 minutes, cool it, and add your yeast. Let it go for about 2 days and give it a swirl several times each day. When it's done, refrigerate for a couple days (or longer) and discard most of the liquid just before you are ready to pitch it into your wort. Making a starter will also tell you if your liquid yeast is any good (it most likely is, but you never know).

 

[sky4meplease]

It would be more like a double IPA but with 12 ounces of hops you could use:

11 pounds LME

1 ounce Simcoe First Wort Hop
2 ounce Citra 5 minutes
2 ounce Citra flameout
2 ounces Galaxy 200 degrees
2 ounces Galaxy 180 degrees
4 ounces Galaxy dry hop

Pitch both yeast!

 

[tjm02c]

Well I was able to find some more WLP008, so mixing strains is no longer an issue. However, I'd still be interested to know if anyone has any experience with it.

11 lbs of LME probably won't happen for me on this brew, but I may steal that hop schedule.

Thanks for the help!

 

[flars]

Try the starter to build the one pack of yeast for the number of yeast cells you need for this brew. A starter may seem difficult or confusing but a starter is just brewing a small beer without any hops. Benefit of this small beer is you don't need temperature control. Room temperature fermentation of the starter wort is standard.

You can also propagate more cells than you need for this beer to use in the next starter when you will use this yeast again. The harvested cells can be refrigerated in a pint canning jar for months.

Two good pitch rate/starter calculators. Brew United has an over build calculator built in for harvesting extra cells.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

 

[sky4meplease]

11 lbs of LME probably won't happen for me on this brew, but I may steal that hop schedule.

Maybe some corn sugar?

8lbs LME will barely get you to 1.050 OG

The corn sugar will help dry it out a little as well which will help accentuate the hops.

1 pound would help 2 would be better 🙃

I don't have any experience with 008 but American IPA is listed as an appropriate style.

"Our "Brewer Patriot" strain can be used to reproduce many of the American versions of classic beer styles. Similar neutral character of WLP001, but less attenuation, less accentuation of hop bitterness, slightly less flocculation, and a little tartness. Very clean and low esters. Great yeast for golden, blonde, honey, pales and German alt style ales."

 

[sky4meplease]

Well I was able to find some more WLP008, so mixing strains is no longer an issue.

Sad. I was looking forward to see how that worked out. [emoji6]

 

[tjm02c]

Haha maybe next time

 

[tjm02c]

8lbs LME will barely get you to 1.050 OG

Yeah I was thinking it'd me something higher than that at first and then realized not after running the numbers again. Maybe I'll add more malt. If I buy another can and for some reason decide not to open it or open it and use some of it, how long would that stay good for? Would refrigeration extend its life?

 

[flars]

Yeah I was thinking it'd me something higher than that at first and then realized not after running the numbers again. Maybe I'll add more malt. If I buy another can and for some reason decide not to open it or open it and use some of it, how long would that stay good for? Would refrigeration extend its life?

Unless I missed something 8 pounds of LME should give you an OG of 1.059 for 5 gallons. Are you planning 10 gallons?

http://www.brewersfriend.com/extract-ogfg/

Always refrigerate LME. How long it keeps depends upon how your supplier handles it.

 

[sky4meplease]

Unless I missed something 8 pounds of LME should give you an OG of 1.059 for 5 gallons. Are you planning 10 gallons?

I think the numbers were for 5.5 gallons and an estimate.
The OP is planning to use 13 ounces of hops in this beer.
That's a lot of hops for a Pale Ale type original gravity and for most I have seen even IPA.
For something more Double IPA like a more appropriate OG of 1.065-1.085 is what I would shoot for.

 

[tjm02c]

Yep, only doing a 5 gallon batch. I ended up buying more LME, so I'm up to 11.3 lbs now. If my numbers are right that should get me up to about 1.080 OG and should hopefully be a little more balanced with the large amount of hops. This is my first attempt at brewing something I created so I'm kinda learning on the job here lol. Thanks for all the tips!

 

[sky4meplease]

Something to think about is the volume loss from the hops.
If you don't mind a little smaller volume going into the package then roll on otherwise if you have the capacity you could do 5.5 gallons and still be around 1075 OG.
With that much Hop you could easily lose 1/2-3/4 gallons.
With 13 ounces of hops 1075 would be respectable.
Keep us up to speed on your progress.

 

[tjm02c]

Yep, I had thought about the volume loss a little and was planning on having 6 gallons of water available. Was probably going to do about a 3 gallon boil and then just add whatever's needed to the fermenter to get it up to 5 gallons.

 

[sky4meplease]

Yep, I had thought about the volume loss a little and was planning on having 6 gallons of water available. Was probably going to do about a 3 gallon boil and then just add whatever's needed to the fermenter to get it up to 5 gallons.

That extra half gallon is another 5 bottles of beer! 🤑

 

[tjm02c]

That extra half gallon is another 5 bottles of beer! 🤑

Haha yeah true, I'll probably just fill as high as I can without risking it overflowing

 

[seabrew8]

Haha yeah true, I'll probably just fill as high as I can without risking it overflowing

Use a blowoff tube if you plan on filling the fermenter close to full.

Not sure if its been mentioned too lazy to read all the posts! haha

 

[tjm02c]

Use a blowoff tube if you plan on filling the fermenter close to full.

Not sure if its been mentioned too lazy to read all the posts! haha

Haha nope, hasn't been mentioned yet so thanks for the tip. I'm not planning on filling it that much where a blow-off would be necessary. As long as I have a few inches of headroom (I'm using a bucket FYI) I should be good with just an airlock, right?

 

[seabrew8]

Haha nope, hasn't been mentioned yet so thanks for the tip. I'm not planning on filling it that much where a blow-off would be necessary. As long as I have a few inches of headroom (I'm using a bucket FYI) I should be good with just an airlock, right?

Depends on the yeast. But generally yeah you want more then a few inches of head space for ale yeast in my experience. Once it starts fermenting you will have a mess on your hands.

I would probably say 5-6 inches is the minimum for a bucket. In my experience.

 

[tjm02c]

Depends on the yeast. But generally yeah you want more then a few inches of head space for ale yeast in my experience. Once it starts fermenting you will have a mess on your hands.

I would probably say 5-6 inches is the minimum for a bucket. In my experience.

Noted, thanks

 

[sky4meplease]

Haha yeah true, I'll probably just fill as high as I can without risking it overflowing

You could add water until you reach your target OG. With the amount of hops your using I wouldn't go much lower than 1.075. That should get you pretty close to 5.5 gallons.
Plenty of head space in a 6.5 gallon bucket and if you lose .5 or so gallons due to trub you still package 5 gallons.
This is all making me thirsty. [emoji481]

 

[tjm02c]

Yeah I'm hoping to be around 1.080 or so. I've never actually added water after the boil before, so am I supposed stir it into the wort or something?

 

[sky4meplease]

Yeah I'm hoping to be around 1.080 or so. I've never actually added water after the boil before, so am I supposed stir it into the wort or something?

It has been a while since I did partial boil so someone else might better help you here.
Stirring it in even aggressively to help aerate prior to pitching yeast would be good.
I can't remember whether I boiled and cooled the top up water to sanitize it or not. I don't think I did but my brain tells me that would be a good idea now.

 

[tjm02c]

It has been a while since I did partial boil so someone else might better help you here.
Stirring it in even aggressively to help aerate prior to pitching yeast would be good.
I can't remember whether I boiled and cooled the top up water to sanitize it or not. I don't think I did but my brain tells me that would be a good idea now.

Yeah I've seen people say to boil and cool it, but I'm buying bottled water so I assumed I would be able to skip that step. Maybe I should boil just in case

 

[ncbrewer]

Some thoughts -

I think for 5 gallons of 1.075 wort in a 6.5 gallon bucket you would be better off using a blow-off tube.

I seems like you're letting the amount of hops drive the recipe. Normally, hops are adjusted as needed for the extract (or grain).

I use county tap water and have never pre-boiled it - just treat it with campden.

jmo

 

[tjm02c]

I wouldn't say the hops are necessarily driving the recipe, I'm just kinda refining the recipe as I go since this is my first one. I came in planning on a heavily hopped high gravity beer and didn't realize i didn't have enough LME to get the gravity I hoped for. I'm going to look into a blow off tho.

 

[IslandLizard]

You definitely need to make a yeast starter with that beer! Depending on the age of the yeast and the way it was stored, even a triple pack pitch ($21 !) will unlikely have even close to the cells needed.

For a 1.075 DIPA you need 284 billion cells. 2 smack packs leaving the lab yesterday only have a total of 200 billion cells, at best.

You also need to oxygenate the wort well when pitching the yeast. If you don't have pure oxygen, use a large whisk or a paint mixer in a drill for a few minutes. Repeat after 12 hours.

Especially when using extracts you need to give the yeast all the help it can get since they tend to end in a higher gravity, leaving a sweet beer behind.

Did anyone mention fermentation temperature control yet?

 

[tjm02c]

It's OK to aerate the wort 12 hours after the original pitch? Def planning on a starter and at least 2 yeast packs. It takes a lot to overyeast a beer, right?

 

[sky4meplease]

It's OK to aerate the wort 12 hours after the original pitch? Def planning on a starter and at least 2 yeast packs. It takes a lot to overyeast a beer, right?

Yes on both accounts.

Aeration/oxygen "after" 18 hours is pushing it.

While technically under pitching with two packs, I personally think that would be fine. If you have the means for a starter to wake things up then by all means do so. If your looking to propagate yeast you are going to need a pretty big starter with both packs. Like 3 liters!

Or you could use that London(1318) yeast you have and skip the starter all together [emoji6]

 

[tjm02c]

So you don't think wyeast packs need a starter?