Wyeast Yeast Nutrient Blend

[hopsandhops]

Who uses this product vs other yeast nutrients? I seem to get extremely high attenuation, even when factoring in mash temp, grain bill, etc. I use pure o2 before pitching, but I don't have any other explanation. It dawned on me the other day that I use Wyeast Nutrient Blend on every batch.

Anyone else using this product and regularly getting higher than expected attenuation?

 

[TheCrackpot]

I use this product and have never had any problems with under-attenuated beers. In fact, now that you mention it, I've only ever had problems with slightly over-attenuated beers. I always blamed it on my tendency to use US05 on almost everything. I never thought about the nutrient having that much of an effect. I guess I've never been that upset about the over-attenuation (1-3 points usually)so I've not given it much thought. Because I use RO water with some gypsum and calcium chloride added in, I worry about a lack of trace minerals for the yeast to use so I usually use twice the recommended amount of the nutrient (1tsp).

 

[hopsandhops]

I don't know how I ended up using it. I guess it just seemed like a good idea at the time and I kept using it. I have no complaints, I've definitely not had a problem with under-attenuated beers, I've just learned to mash much higher than it would seem like I should.

I was just wondering if others have noticed this, or if other yeast nutrients cause this

 

[ncbrewer]

I use Wyeast nutrient and get aroung 80 - 85% apparent attenuation (no simple sugars in the wort - all malt). That might be a little on the high side, but not much. What's your attenuation? Any simple sugars? Have you calibrated your thermometer?

 

[hopsandhops]

I get around the same, 80-85%, even with a 154-155 mash temp and no simple sugars. I'm doing an IPL tomorrow 50/50 2 row and Vienna and I'm going to mash at 156 to try to finish in the 1.012 range. We'll see where it ends up

I haven't calibrated my thermo, but it's a thermoworks. Maybe I should check it.

I don't have a problem per se, I just was wondering if others were experiencing similar results with wyeast nutrient

 

[Calder]

I don't use it, or any other nutrient, and I get high attenuation. Regularly get 85+ attenuation and never used any nutrient.

Without doing several batches with side-by-side comparisons you can't make any conclusions as to whether the nutrient had any effect on finally gravity.

Wort has plenty of nutrients. A healthy pitch of yeast and good aeration practices are all you really need. I don't think nutrients do anything. Now, if you were fermenting apple juice, which lacks nutrients, you should use it.

 

[sky4meplease]

The one thing yeast need that wort does not provide is Zinc which IS in the nutrient blend.
The nutrient addition may be advantageous with worts high in rice, corn or sugar adjuncts which don't provide many nutrients that yeast require, if using R/O water that is stripped of elements yeast need or if using harvested yeast that may be depleted from prior fermentations.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Ive only used the nutrient once, but it didn't over attenuate. I think I hit my target on a Rye IPA.

I started using it after reading up on acetaldehyde. I was getting some green apple notes in my dark beers. I BIAB with Distilled/RO water and add my own minerals. In doing this, I assumed I was adding everything that was needed (CaCl2, Gypsum, Epson Salt, etc.), but apparently I was missing some zinc. Zinc is needed in the conversion of Acetaldehyde to Ethanol and distilled water is devoid of any zinc, so I needed a source of it. The regular yeast nutrient you see does not contain any zinc. This product is the only thing I found, short of adding zinc tablets.

 

[Queequeg]

I use this too, a pinch
in my starter and 1/2 tsp in the boil. My beers tend to often be a point lower than beersmiths estimates. However without a comparative study this doesn't mean much.

 

[hopsandhops]

Purely anecdotal info here, but I forgot to add nutrient to my last brew, an IPA with no crystal. I mashed lower than anticipated, around 152, instead of 154, and I would've generally expected to be at or below 1.010 with that recipe and mash temp, but it stopped at 1.012 from 1.067 with 3rd gen WLP007. Coincidence? Not sure, but I was hoping for 1.012, so I'm happy either way

 

[Natdavis777]

Ive never used it and have always gotten high attenuation, especially with American strains. Coaxing my fermentation schedule on English strains, I can get 75-77% using 1968/002. Not saying it doesnt contribute anything, Ive just never felt the need, or had the need to use it.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

I found this article on zinc and yeast acivity.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1987.tb04478.x/pdf

Here is an exert:

"In the second paper of the session Mr F. B. Martens
(Heineken Technisch Beheer BV, Zoeterwoude, The
Netherlands) discussed The Effect of Zinc on Yeast Be
haviour: Continuous Culture Studies. The trace element zinc
plays an important role in yeast metabolism. Important glycolytic
enzymes, such as glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate dehydrogenase,
aldolase and alcoholdehydrogenase require zinc for
catalytic activity. Experimental data taken from batch fer
mentations suggest that a low level of zinc in the wort has a
negative effect on yeast behaviour. A chemostat is a perfect
instrument to study the influence of individual substrate
components. Thus, a continuous yeast culture system has
been operated and brewers' yeast metabolism monitored as a
function of the zinc concentration and dilution rate with
respect to activity of zinc-dependent glycolytic enzymes. A
synthetic medium was developed in order to study brewing
yeast metabolism under zinc-limiting conditions."

Given that many use RO/Distilled water, it would probably be wise to use some kind of zinc supplement towards the end of the boil. Wyeast Nutrient supplies this and other "goodies".

 

[tjosborne]

I have a question about using this. Do I put some in a starter as well? If so after I decant would I use more in the boil?

 

[hopsandhops]

I found this article on zinc and yeast acivity.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1987.tb04478.x/pdf

Here is an exert:

"In the second paper of the session Mr F. B. Martens
(Heineken Technisch Beheer BV, Zoeterwoude, The
Netherlands) discussed The Effect of Zinc on Yeast Be
haviour: Continuous Culture Studies. The trace element zinc
plays an important role in yeast metabolism. Important glycolytic
enzymes, such as glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate dehydrogenase,
aldolase and alcoholdehydrogenase require zinc for
catalytic activity. Experimental data taken from batch fer
mentations suggest that a low level of zinc in the wort has a
negative effect on yeast behaviour. A chemostat is a perfect
instrument to study the influence of individual substrate
components. Thus, a continuous yeast culture system has
been operated and brewers' yeast metabolism monitored as a
function of the zinc concentration and dilution rate with
respect to activity of zinc-dependent glycolytic enzymes. A
synthetic medium was developed in order to study brewing
yeast metabolism under zinc-limiting conditions."

Given that many use RO/Distilled water, it would probably be wise to use some kind of zinc supplement towards the end of the boil. Wyeast Nutrient supplies this and other "goodies".

That's good info! Thanks!

I know people get high attenuation without it, and I got over 83% with 007 without it on this last batch, but I always seem to get crazy high attenuation when using it

 

[hopsandhops]

I have a question about using this. Do I put some in a starter as well? If so after I decant would I use more in the boil?

I always use a pinch in my starter, decant, and then use another pinch late in the boil

 

[Kiknjville]

I use it and always over attenuate. I'm not saying it's due to the nutrient but just adding to the MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE we are accumulating here I also put a pinch in my starter.

 

[bobo31]

When I started using 100% RO water I thought it was a good idea to start using this, so I have ever since. Haven't tried to prove if it is necessary or not.