WYeast Pack Advice

[MWM777]

The local HB owner told me to activate the yeast pack, and let it sit overnight at room tempand start. I won't be brewing until 10am or so, and likely not pitching until 2-3 hours after that. Is that necessary? What's your methods?

 

[dickproenneke]

They gave you sound advice. I generally will make a starter with any liquid yeast.

 

[MWM777]

They gave you sound advice. I generally will make a starter with any liquid yeast.

This is one of the "Activator" packs that you smack to activate. Would you still make a starter for this?

 

[vNmd]

This is one of the "Activator" packs that you smack to activate. Would you still make a starter for this?

I do make the starter even with the smack packs. It will increase your cell count as well as making sure everyone is active, healthy, & ready for the main event. It is going to depend on what you are brewing and if a starter is needed. The ligher brews can get by without. There are calculators where you plug your info in and they tell you a recommended amount.

 

[Cauchy]

To answer your question, giving the smack-pack a few hours to work at room temperature is fine. I have never let mine sit overnight and I tend to crank out perfectly palatable beers. However, do look up how to make a starter and the volume recommended for your beer's original gravity (OG) at some point.

 

[PRE66_6TART]

I don't think activating it at all is really necessary, it always just seemed like kind of a gimmick to me. It's supposed to prove your yeast is viable, but a better way to do that is to make a starter. If you are just going to smack it and then pitch it into straight your wort, it might take a while to swell, so I guess you could do it the night before to make sure.

 

[dickproenneke]

This is one of the "Activator" packs that you smack to activate. Would you still make a starter for this?

Definitely if making a beer >1.050 OG

 

[Komocabo]

I smack mine as right after I start the burners for my brew. I have done starters, and they serve their purpose, but I don't have a stir plate, etc., and I'm somewhat lazy... The beer always comes out delicious either way. I plan to get more active and build a stir plate... Xmas is calling!

 

[PRE66_6TART]

Even though the package says it has enough yeast for 5 gallons up to 1.060, the general consensus is that it's not really enough in most circumstances. And to compensate for under-pitching they make you go through this crazy hassle of keeping the beer warm and watching it constantly until it starts to show signs of fermentation and then lowering it to the right temperature. If you have more yeast you can start it off at a lower and let it naturally rise to then correct temp, which is easier and makes better beer. Either way will make beer though so don't stress over it too much. Just something to keep in mind

 

[AlCophile]

Make a double starter, use half, freeze half under 25% glycerol, save $10.

 

[Komocabo]

Make a double starter, use half, freeze half under 25% glycerol, save $10.

True, but is a bit advanced for the OP at this point given the question at hand. No offense either way. Cheers

 

[firestem4]

The local HB owner told me to activate the yeast pack, and let it sit overnight at room tempand start. I won't be brewing until 10am or so, and likely not pitching until 2-3 hours after that. Is that necessary? What's your methods?

I usually take the pack out of the fridge the night before I brew. I will smack the pack in the morning once I start cleaning and sanitizing everything. By the time I am done with the boil and have transferred to my Primary, the pack is all swelled up. Pitch it when it gets to temp. Has worked very well for me so far.

 

[taoisilent]

I smack the night before, and put it in my fermentation chamber. I use the activator packs for 3 gallon batches, so I never make a starter for the pack. I do harvest the yeast from primary though, wash it and split it into 2 or three jars for reuse. If it's been more than 4-6 weeks, I'll make a starter from those.

 

[Gameface]

Smacking the pack doesn't do anything special to the yeast. You can smack it, not smack it, smack it a week and a half before using, whatever you want...the smacking does nothing.

 

[brewkinger]

Smacking the pack doesn't do anything special to the yeast. You can smack it, not smack it, smack it a week and a half before using, whatever you want...the smacking does nothing.

This is technically not true.
Smacking breaks open a nutrient pack that activates the yeast and gives them a little something to get them ready for the task at hand.

However, if a starter is to be made, then smacking is not necessary because the starter wort is the "nutrient" pack.




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[Gameface]

This is technically not true.
Smacking breaks open a nutrient pack that activates the yeast and gives them a little something to get them ready for the task at hand.

However, if a starter is to be made, then smacking is not necessary because the starter wort is the "nutrient" pack.




Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Sure, and since even in a 5 gallon batch at 1.040 you should make a starter the smacking is pretty irrelevant.

Basically in order to not need a starter you'd have to A) have yeast less then a week old, B) be making a batch no larger than 5 gallons and C) have a gravity no higher than 1.030. Anything more than that and you should be making a starter or using multiple packs of yeast.

 

[Hello]

OP I smack it at the beginning of my brew day and let it sit at room temp. It is then at pitching temp by the time I am ready. I pitch when i am basically all cleaned up so that adds some extra time to let it sit.

Sure, and since even in a 5 gallon batch at 1.040 you should make a starter the smacking is pretty irrelevant.

Basically in order to not need a starter you'd have to A) have yeast less then a week old, B) be making a batch no larger than 5 gallons and C) have a gravity no higher than 1.030. Anything more than that and you should be making a starter or using multiple packs of yeast.

I'm curious where you read the part I bolded.
I've brewed two batches with OGs of 1.055 and 1.060, both using the London ESB yeast. I smacked the pack at the beginning of my brew day and pitched directly to my wort. No issues, normal attenuation that I expected and near immediate activity and heavy krausen that dropped after a few days. No off flavors (have sent bottles to various people for tastings) and all is well.

Yeastcalc will say that is a slight under pitch but I've never read that the max OG is 1.030 for those smack packs. I assume you mean that based on the # of cells needed the OG should be around 1.030 but clearly that is not a be all end all, right? I as well as others have successfully managed with a higher OG.

 

[AnOldUR]

According to the book Yeast by White and Zainasheff, when using a fresh laboratory sample (like a smack pack) a brewer can use up to a 50 percent less pitch rate. They also prefer a .75 million cells per milliliter of wort per degree Plato for ales when repitching (slurry or non lab starter). So, for a fresh pack that's as low as .375 million.

What that mean is a fresh smack will be just fine pitched into 5¼ gallons of 1.050 wort, maybe a little higher.

The age of the pack is important, but what is more important is how it was handled. If you trust that your LHBS is getting viable yeast and is storing it properly, then you can be confident in a good cell count. I’ve read the Wyeast starts a little high so that even after 4 weeks you should still be getting at least 100 billion cells.

This is where the OP’s question about smack packs comes in. For American Ale type yeasts, I’ll pop the inner cell the morning of brewday and put it somewhere where it will stay at 60-65 degrees. If it’s swollen by the time I’m ready to pitch, I’m more confident in my decision to not use a starter.

My only disclaimer is that, like taoisilent, I’ll pitch into a 3-4 gallon batch of around 1.060 wort. And then use part of the slurry for my next full size batch.


edit:
If you didn't notice, my avatar is a fresh slurry ready for pitching.

 

[doornumber3]

I use them all the time. Above 1060 is when I use a starter. Otherwise I just smack it before I start brewing and pitch after I clean. That's about 5 hrs and never had an issue.


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[Gameface]

OP I smack it at the beginning of my brew day and let it sit at room temp. It is then at pitching temp by the time I am ready. I pitch when i am basically all cleaned up so that adds some extra time to let it sit.



I'm curious where you read the part I bolded.
I've brewed two batches with OGs of 1.055 and 1.060, both using the London ESB yeast. I smacked the pack at the beginning of my brew day and pitched directly to my wort. No issues, normal attenuation that I expected and near immediate activity and heavy krausen that dropped after a few days. No off flavors (have sent bottles to various people for tastings) and all is well.

Yeastcalc will say that is a slight under pitch but I've never read that the max OG is 1.030 for those smack packs. I assume you mean that based on the # of cells needed the OG should be around 1.030 but clearly that is not a be all end all, right? I as well as others have successfully managed with a higher OG.

I'm certainly not saying it won't work or that the results will be horrible, but mrmalty.com says you need 107B cells for 5G of 1.030 wort. the packs come with 100B cells.

Obviously, there's wiggle room. Like has been mentioned many times before, unless you're using a microscope to do a cell count you're making an estimation based on an estimation and basing that estimation on several variables that usually cannot be known for sure. I also assume excellent aeration and good temp control can compensate for a minor underpitch. But from what I see around here, most people who have excellent aeration (with pure O2) and actively control fermentation temps also make yeast starters for liquid yeast.

When I get liquid yeast I'm usually happy if the pack is less than a month old. Often it's older than that. How old does that pack have to be for these guys who have "excellent" results direct pitching before they either make a starter (I'm guessing if it's not part of your routine it's not part of your routine even when it's clearly called for) or pitch multiple packs?

Anyway, I've made very good beer direct pitching, even with some highish gravity brews. That said, I would never consider going back to direct pitching liquid yeast... because then what would I do with my flasks and stir plates?

 

[Hello]

According to the book Yeast by White and Zainasheff, when using a fresh laboratory sample (like a smack pack) a brewer can use up to a 50 percent less pitch rate. They also prefer a .75 million cells per milliliter of wort per degree Plato for ales when repitching (slurry or non lab starter). So, for a fresh pack that's as low as .375 million.

What that mean is a fresh smack will be just fine pitched into 5¼ gallons of 1.050 wort, maybe a little higher.

The age of the pack is important, but what is more important is how it was handled. If you trust that your LHBS is getting viable yeast and is storing it properly, then you can be confident in a good cell count. I’ve read the Wyeast starts a little high so that even after 4 weeks you should still be getting at least 100 billion cells.

This is where the OP’s question about smack packs comes in. For American Ale type yeasts, I’ll pop the inner cell the morning of brewday and put it somewhere where it will stay at 60-65 degrees. If it’s swollen by the time I’m ready to pitch, I’m more confident in my decision to not use a starter.

My only disclaimer is that, like taoisilent, I’ll pitch into a 3-4 gallon batch of around 1.060 wort. And then use part of the slurry for my next full size batch.


edit:
If you didn't notice, my avatar is a fresh slurry ready for pitching.

I'm certainly not saying it won't work or that the results will be horrible, but mrmalty.com says you need 107B cells for 5G of 1.030 wort. the packs come with 100B cells.

Obviously, there's wiggle room. Like has been mentioned many times before, unless you're using a microscope to do a cell count you're making an estimation based on an estimation and basing that estimation on several variables that usually cannot be known for sure. I also assume excellent aeration and good temp control can compensate for a minor underpitch. But from what I see around here, most people who have excellent aeration (with pure O2) and actively control fermentation temps also make yeast starters for liquid yeast.

When I get liquid yeast I'm usually happy if the pack is less than a month old. Often it's older than that. How old does that pack have to be for these guys who have "excellent" results direct pitching before they either make a starter (I'm guessing if it's not part of your routine it's not part of your routine even when it's clearly called for) or pitch multiple packs?

Anyway, I've made very good beer direct pitching, even with some highish gravity brews. That said, I would never consider going back to direct pitching liquid yeast... because then what would I do with my flasks and stir plates?

That makes a whole lot of sense. I also read some of the replies here.
One of those beers should have had a starter. Meaning, I made one and dumped it because I didn't sanitize something and I was concerned. I ended up doing a direct pitch and was very surprised to see the results were okay. I just never heard of the 1.030 as the solid rock bottom (or ceiling) of a gravity.

I do have some very expired smackpacks that I got for a song. With those, I will use two packs in a starter, which should work. I think. Thanks for taking the time to explain that.