wort share contest + BIAB + beersmith help

[brokebucket]

Hey all,

I am in a wort share contest this friday. Basically, a local brewery is making up a batch of generic wort, then the distribute it to anybody that wants in to take home and make it your own.

So, the reason why I am posting up is I would love somebody to double check my work in Beersmith, as I am not that proficient in Beersmith, but I THINK I know what I am doing. I hate to post up my plan, but I will take the small risk to be able to have the confidence in knowing I am not shooting myself in the foot.

So, first things first....the info from the brewery:

Wort Recipe

Cargill Special Pale 57%
Cargill Munich 17%
Dingemans Aromatic 17%
Crisp Dextrin 9%

Expected Pre-Boil Gravity - 1.036

Based on 5 gallons, this is what I have in Beersmith:


Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Equipment: Pot (18.5 Gal/70 L) - BIAB
End of Boil Volume 3.20 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 4.26 gal Est Mash Efficiency 93.4 %

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 57.6 %
1 lbs 9.6 oz Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 2 16.8 %
1 lbs 9.6 oz Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 16.8 %
13.6 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 8.9 %

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.048 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.9 %
Bitterness: 0.0 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 7.5 SRM

 

[brokebucket]

Part 2:

So, based on this base recipe, I am planning on making an ESB based on the Common Room ESB recipe found here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f64/common-room-esb-83878/

Here is what my final recipe looks like in Beersmith:

Wort Share ESB
Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)
Type: All Grain Date: 12/13/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal Brewer: CK1
Boil Size: 9.78 gal
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Pot (18.5 Gal/70 L) - BIAB
End of Boil Volume 7.98 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.26 gal Est Mash Efficiency 89.5 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 40.6 %
3 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 22.1 %
1 lbs 9.6 oz Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 3 11.8 %
1 lbs 9.6 oz Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 4 11.8 %
13.6 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 6.3 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (77.0 SRM) Grain 6 5.5 %
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 7 1.8 %
2.00 oz Goldings, B.C. [5.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 8 28.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 9 3.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Goldings, B.C. [5.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 10 3.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Goldings, B.C. [5.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.057 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.9 %
Bitterness: 35.9 IBUs
Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 12.3 SRM

 

[brokebucket]

based on the difference, here is my "what to add" recipe:

wort share ESB additional grist
Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)
Type: All Grain Date: 12/20/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 2.00 gal Brewer: CK1
Boil Size: 3.36 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Pot ( 5 Gal/19 L) - Mini-BIAB
End of Boil Volume 2.61 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 1.78 gal Est Mash Efficiency 87.9 %


Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 75.0 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 18.8 %
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.3 %
Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.3 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 0.0 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 16.6 SRM

 

[brokebucket]

Alright, so based on this heap of junk, PLAN A is to do a BIAB using the 5 gallons of premade wort, add 2.5 gallons of RO water, bring that up to strike temp of 154 for a mash temp of 152. Add my additional grains and mash for an hour, then add the FWH and boil as normal (figuring a 1 gallon boil off leaves me with 6 gallons post boil).

Thoughts???

Thanks a bunch!

Chris

 

[KingBrianI]

Alright, so based on this heap of junk, PLAN A is to do a BIAB using the 5 gallons of premade wort, add 2.5 gallons of RO water, bring that up to strike temp of 154 for a mash temp of 152. Add my additional grains and mash for an hour, then add the FWH and boil as normal (figuring a 1 gallon boil off leaves me with 6 gallons post boil).

Thoughts???

Thanks a bunch!

Chris

Looks like it would work but you're making it very complicated. Also, I'm getting an OG of 1.044 based on your recipe. See the following:

5 gallons of 1.036 wort = 5 x 36pts = 180 pts

plus the additional fermentables from your minimash which I calculate will contribute 14 additional points of gravity to the 7.5 gallon mash based on your stated 70% efficiency.

So that gives us 7.5 gallons of 1.014 additional gravity = 7.5 x 14pts = 105 pts

So you are getting 180 pts from the brewery's wort, plus an additional 105 pts from your minimash for a total of 285 pts in your 7.5 gallon total. 285 pts / 7.5 gallons = 38 pts/gal. Of those 7.5 gallons, it looks like you only plan on getting 7 to the boil. So: 7 gallons x 38 pts/gal = 266 pts. Then you're gonna boil those 266 pts of gravity down to a final volume of 6 gallons. So 266 pts / 6 gallons = 44.333 or an OG of 1.044.

If it were me, I'd do the minimash separate from the wort you get from the brewery and just combine them in the kettle to boil. But you're gonna have to add more fermentables or boil down some more to hit your intended OG.

Good luck!

 

[brokebucket]

Cool math, I have never seen it added up like that before (still pretty new to this). Thanks for the help!

So shooting for a final gravity of 1.057 and 6 gallons, then I will need 57 X 6 gallons...342.

subtracting the given wort amount of 180 gives 342-180= 162 points to gain.

162/7.5 = 21.6 so a starting gravity of 1.022.

If my math is correct, that would give me:

5.5 lbs maris otter
3/4 lbs medium crystal
1/4 lbs dark crystal

Speaking of which, I do plan on using the british crystal malts, but they arent in beersmith.

 

[KingBrianI]

Cool math, I have never seen it added up like that before (still pretty new to this). Thanks for the help!

So shooting for a final gravity of 1.057 and 6 gallons, then I will need 57 X 6 gallons...342.

subtracting the given wort amount of 180 gives 342-180= 162 points to gain.

162/7.5 = 21.6 so a starting gravity of 1.022.

If my math is correct, that would give me:

5.5 lbs maris otter
3/4 lbs medium crystal
1/4 lbs dark crystal

Speaking of which, I do plan on using the british crystal malts, but they arent in beersmith.

There you go, that should do it. I'm glad you picked up on my calculations so easily, I'm pleasantly surprised. Also, despite my recipe calling for s-04, I've found nice liquid strains to be far superior in that recipe since posting the original. wy 1969, 1318, 1469 and 1187 (and their white labs equivalents) have all made great common room esbs for me. I'd highly suggest using one of those with an appropriate starter and fermentation schedule. The result will likely blow you and the judges for the contest away.

 

[brokebucket]

I was planning on using wyeast 1968, or the newer one that Jamil talks about...Yorkshire I think. I am going to listen to the brewing with styles on ESB again this week to refresh my memory.

Thanks again for your help. I will keep you updated as we go.

Chris

 

[alers22]

How does the brewery wort lend itself to a California Common?

 

[MKBoitnott]

How does the brewery wort lend itself to a California Common?

Its funny that you ask that. I am participating in the wort share myself, and I am going (loosely) with a Cal Common for my recipe.

Obviously Brokebucket got pretty close to the same calculations for the start wort from COTU, so I will be adding the following with a BIAB mini-mash:

1 lb Maris Otter
.75 lb Crystal 40
.25 lb Crystal 60
2 oz Pale Chocolate

BeerTools says this would bring me up to 1.054 OG

.75 oz Northern Brewer (9.9%) 60min
.75 oz Northern Brewer (9.9%) 15 min
1.5 oz Northern Brewer (9.9%) 1 min

1.5 L starter WLP810 at 60F


I had this cruuuuhazzzy thought to switch out that 1 min NB addition and sub with Chinook, but that might just be the craziest thing ever.

Thoughts anyone? Im either doing this, or just completely stealing Brokebucket's leaked recipe. Highest bidder at the homebrew meeting tomorrow.

 

[alers22]

Thought I was the only BIABer
in the JRHB. Glad there are a few of us.

Sent from my XT907 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[brokebucket]

Thievery I tell you!!!

Cool to see some local richmonders on here. I am a JRHB member, but can never seem to shake the kids off to make it to a meeting. Missing tonight's as well.

I started a COTU wort share thread that nobody ever commented on a while back if anybody wants to talk more generic about the contest and post updates:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f199/cotu-wort-share-part-ii-448696/

Good luck, see yall Saturday!

 

[alers22]

COTU told us that their expected SG is 1.036. Why did you choose to use 1.044? I realize that is what Beersmith calculated but when I input the ingredients into Beersmith I lowered the actual gravity reading to 1.036. It made my grain bill lower but the percentages were still the same. I also noticed that you didn't use the actual Cargill grains in your Beersmith calculations. Do you think this effects your calculations?

I'm fairly new at this as well so let me know your thoughts.

 

[brokebucket]

That is the expected pre-boil gravity, so I plugged it in to beersmith and adjusted the numbers until I got what they gave me.

So, the way I interpreted it was: 1.036 preboil, 1.044 post boil OG. As I write this, I need to go back and take a look at my numbers to make sure I am right.

BTW, I am a total newbie as well, so dont blindly trust me.

 

[brokebucket]

alers,

I went back and did some double checking, and I think my numbers were off because I was getting confused with preboil/postboil. Like I said, I am new at this. Also, I only used what was available in beersmith. If you can use actual grains in BS, I dont know how.

Back to what I have for the COTU wort. Feel free to post up what you have, because I am still being thrown for a loop in beersmith based on post boil volumes and what not:

Type: All Grain
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal Brewer: CK1
Boil Size: 8.74 gal
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Pot (18.5 Gal/70 L) - BIAB
End of Boil Volume 6.94 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 4.26 gal Est Mash Efficiency 93.4 %


Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4 lbs 1.6 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 57.0 %
1 lbs 3.5 oz Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 2 17.0 %
1 lbs 3.5 oz Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 17.0 %
10.4 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 9.0 %

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.036 SG

Est Color: 6.2 SRM

No Mash Out Total Grain Weight: 7 lbs 3.0 oz
Sparge Water: 7.35 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.20

 

[MKBoitnott]

That is the expected pre-boil gravity, so I plugged it in to beersmith and adjusted the numbers until I got what they gave me.

So, the way I interpreted it was: 1.036 preboil, 1.044 post boil OG. As I write this, I need to go back and take a look at my numbers to make sure I am right.

BTW, I am a total newbie as well, so dont blindly trust me.

Yea you got it right there. Once you have the base COTU recipe set, then the preboil gravity will be 1.036. However, you have to be careful when adding extra water to your initial calculations (ex: with a BIAB minimash or steeping), because that will throw your initially calculated gravity.

I think you said you are mashing with your wort though right?

 

[MKBoitnott]

alers,

Type: All Grain
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal Brewer: CK1
Boil Size: 8.74 gal
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Pot (18.5 Gal/70 L) - BIAB
End of Boil Volume 6.94 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 4.26 gal Est Mash Efficiency 93.4 %

Why do you go from a boil of 8.74 to end of boil volume of 6.94? Your batch size is 5 gal, so you should have a preboil volume of 7 gal or so (estimated boil off of 1.5 gal/hr.)

I have never used BeerSmith, so I could be reading it wrong, but heres what I got.

Pre Boil Vol: 6.5 gal PreBoil Grav: 1.036
Final Size: 5.28*gal OG: 1.043

Ingredients:
5*lb (58.8%) Cargill Special Pale - added during mash
1.5*lb (17.6%) Cargill Munich - added during mash
1.5*lb (17.6%) Aromatic Malt (Amber 50) - added during mash
.5 lb (8%) Carapils

So basically I am doing a mini-mash with 3 qt of water, which means, after grain absorption, I will have about 2 qt, so that brings me to a total of 7 gal (preboil). Then ill boil down to 5.5ish (assuming 1.5gal/hr boil off).

 

[brokebucket]

To MK, yeah, just so I can keep the temp more constant, and get better efficiency with the BIAB, I am going to dilute to 7.5 gallons then mash with the whole volume. I am figuring losing a half gallon to the additional grains, then end up with 6 gallons in the end with an OG of 1.057.

I use 6 gallons because I learned to brew via the Brewing Network podcasts...Jamil's recipes are based on 6 gallons end of boil, 5.5 in the fermenter, 5 gallons in the bottle/keg. I lose about a gallon per hour in the boil.

That's the plan, anyways.

 

[brokebucket]

Why do you go from a boil of 8.74 to end of boil volume of 6.94?

Because I dont know wtf I am doing! I keep trying to fix it, but it messes everything up, so I left it, knowing that my number will be 5 gallons at 1.036...This is where KingBrian's original post is helping me out. Using his method:

5*36 = 180 (from COTU Wort)
target: 6*57 = 342 total points
target 342 - COTU 180 = 162
162/6= 27 points make up, therefore my added grainbill needs to equal 1.027 at 6 gallons.

 

[MKBoitnott]

So Ive actually never done BIAB before. I planned on just doing it on my stove with a grain steeping bag. I was going to go with the 1.5 qt/lb standard for traditional mashing. That would put me at 3 qt of water for 2 lb of additional grain.

Then I estimated .50 qt lost per lb of grain. Giving me a final total of 2 qt.


Do these numbers sound right? Should I up the water as you suggest? Just go with it? Give up entirely and switch hobbies? RDWHAHB?

 

[brokebucket]

I hope that somebody else can help you out, because leaning on me is a wobbly cane! You can definitely go that route, but I dont know the water, since I only BIAB or extract.

BIAB is nice, because you are using a thinner wort, so sparging isnt necessary. I have never done mini mashes, so i dont know how you figure in sparging, or the lack thereof. Best of luck though! Heading up to Original Gravity in a few to get my supplies....

So Ive actually never done BIAB before. I planned on just doing it on my stove with a grain steeping bag. I was going to go with the 1.5 qt/lb standard for traditional mashing. That would put me at 3 qt of water for 2 lb of additional grain.

Then I estimated .50 qt lost per lb of grain. Giving me a final total of 2 qt.


Do these numbers sound right? Should I up the water as you suggest? Just go with it? Give up entirely and switch hobbies? RDWHAHB?

 

[alers22]

I learned at the meeting last night we will actually be getting a 7 gallons of wort if you signed up for 5 gallons. I wanted to let you guys know since it may impact your recipe.

Sent from my XT907 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[alers22]

BeerSmith has a brew in a bag profile. I will take screenshots of my settings and let you guys see them so you can see if they will work for you or not. what size kettles are you guys using to brew?

Sent from my XT907 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[brokebucket]

I learned at the meeting last night we will actually be getting a 7 gallons of wort if you signed up for 5 gallons. I wanted to let you guys know since it may impact your recipe.

Sent from my XT907 using Home Brew mobile app

Thanks, alers. The email said you can get 5-7 gallons of wort. I am going to get 5, as I want to add as much british malt as i can for flavor. My plan is to take a corny keg and fill it up.

 

[MKBoitnott]

So I am calling an audible completely. Changing the game plan, no malt additions at all, just lots and lots of hops.

Fun with hop bursting.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Yes, good idea! Rather than adding additional malt, simply boil to desired gravity.

That's what I would do, but I like simple!

 

[brokebucket]

Good luck COTU brewers! Post up here how your brew day went....maybe we can do a bottle trade in a few weeks!

Thanks to the other posters, especially King Brian for the recipe I leaned on and showing me the easier way of calculating wort points.

 

[brokebucket]

IDK if all the fuss was worth it or not, but I nailed my OG. Everything went smooth.

 

[MKBoitnott]

Well everything was going great... until my wort chiller had a whole in it. Ended up having an extra half gallon, had to boil some more. Try to strain out some of the hops, to prevent extra isomerization. Had to also add .5 lb of DME

We will see how that goes...

 

[brokebucket]

Took a sample this evening, 1.012 (was expecting 1.015). That is a solid wall of floating sticky goo that is west Yorkshire yeast...pretty wild. First time top cropping, now I just need to figure out what's next.