Wort chiller idea...

[HTH1975]

Hi all, I'm new to brewing and I'm just about to make an immersion coil to chill wort.

As I understand, the normal method is to run cold water through the coil as it's sitting in the hot-wort kettle.

I've thought of an alternative way. You could recirculate the hot wort through the coil, and have the coil in a separate kettle of iced water.

Has anyone done this before?

Is it likely to cool the wort quicker?

 

[Gavin C]

Hi all, I'm new to brewing and I'm just about to make an immersion coil to chill wort.

As I understand, the normal method is to run cold water through the coil as it's sitting in the hot-wort kettle.

I've thought of an alternative way. You could recirculate the hot wort through the coil, and have the coil in a separate kettle of iced water.

Has anyone done this before?

Is it likely to cool the wort quicker?

It can be done but you are going to need a lot of ice and a very long immersion chiller for it to be effective. This is essentially a very crude and very inefficient counter flow chiller (without a counter flow).

The other issue is sanitation, you will need to recirculate boiling wort through the immersion chiller for a period of time to sanitize it prior to cooling. A pump is needed.

in short, possible to do but it is an idea with little merit as a heat exchanger given the simplicity of using the IC as intended.

The hot wort will rapidly melt the ice in the icy-water filled kettle and the cooling becomes less efficient.

Some folks with HERMS systems do this, circulating the wort through the HERMS coil while also circulating cold water through their HLT in which the HERMS coil is situated.

Similar but effective approach but still requires a continuous flow of cold water.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

 

[louis]

I've thought of an alternative way. You could recirculate the hot wort through the coil, and have the coil in a separate kettle of iced water.

Might as well just build a counter flow chiller and save the excess water for cleaning up, your washer, or putting it in a rain barrel for your plants and garden.

As I understand it, for 5 gal batches or less, an immersion chiller will work just fine. When you get to larger batches - 10 gal - an immersion chiller can be hard press to do the job. But that is just based on what I've read.

 

[Gavin C]

Might as well just build a counter flow chiller and save the excess water for cleaning up, your washer, or putting it in a rain barrel for your plants and garden.

As I understand it, for 5 gal batches or less, an immersion chiller will work just fine. When you get to larger batches - 10 gal - an immersion chiller can be hard press to do the job. But that is just based on what I've read.

I've not used it but not all immersion chillers are created equally.

 

[HTH1975]

No need for anyone to apologise - I thought there would be a good reason why this idea isn't the norm. My mind just goes off on a tangent and I get thinking... hmmm... maybe if.... ha ha :0)

 

[jonny24]

I've not used it but not all immersion chillers are created equally.

Looks like it splits into 3 to increase surface area? as well as being a long coil. Not a bad idea.

I had thought of something similar to you when I was building my WC on the weekend, OP. I couldn't think of how you'd have if flow down into the bucket and back up out. I guess you'd need to maintain a siphon to suck it out?

What I did for faster cooling was two coils. One goes in an ice bath in one side of the sink, then that chilled water goes into the kettle in the other side of the sink also in an ice bath. Got me under 70 in 5 minutes.

 

[louis]

not all immersion chillers are created equally

Agreed! You can increase the cooling ability of immersion chiller with some creativity! I've have seen some fancy coil designs and almost makes me want to start my immersion chiller over again. Hahaha - always start making something and hardly get it done before I'm on the next version.

I would imagine a immersion chiller with a 1" or 1 1/2" intake fitting, tapering down to three or two 1/2" coils.

I like the inner/outter coil design

(not mine... )

Muhahah...

 

[brettwasbtd]

Fwiw constantly moving an immersion chiller up/down and in a circular motion (to create a whirling wort) coupled with a high intake flow rate will optimize any chiller. Used to take me 15 mins to get to 80°. Now I can usually do it in about 5min

 

[louis]

Fwiw constantly moving an immersion chiller up/down and in a circular motion (to create a whirling wort) coupled with a high intake flow rate will optimize any chiller. Used to take me 15 mins to get to 80°. Now I can usually do it in about 5min

That reminds me, I did see some builds for a recirculating immersion chiller. They create that whirlpool effect and really improve efficiency. Easy to add to an immersion chiller at a later date. Or can be done just by recirculating the wort and adding a ball value to your pot

 

[bigdongsr94]

I built a coil and put it in a homer bucket. It could then be connected to the valve of my kettle and dump into fermenter. So the coil was in the middle with ice in the bucket as you were originally stating. I forget how cold it got it but I ditched the idea when a batch went bad. I found old hops stuck in the coil after. So as was stated, it can work but sanitation is tough that way.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]I like the inner/outter coil design

Ok, someone was just showing off some mad copper skilz with that

On the down side, it'd really only work well with pumped recirculation as there wouldn't be any room in the kettle for a spoon.
Short kettle, too...

Cheers!

 

[HTH1975]

Some good points raised - especially about 'matter' getting stuck inside the pipe and contaminating a future brew.

The normal way of flowing cold water through the coil seems the better way. I'm probably going to try hooking up my pump to feed a big tank of iced water through the coil - not sure how much faster this will chill the wort, but only one way to find out :0)

 

[Terek]

Some good points raised - especially about 'matter' getting stuck inside the pipe and contaminating a future brew.

The normal way of flowing cold water through the coil seems the better way. I'm probably going to try hooking up my pump to feed a big tank of iced water through the coil - not sure how much faster this will chill the wort, but only one way to find out :0)

i have been thinking about this as well. I have a 600lb ice machine, so ice isnt a problem. Got ice for days

 

[blizz81]

I'm probably going to try hooking up my pump to feed a big tank of iced water through the coil - not sure how much faster this will chill the wort, but only one way to find out :0)

That's really the way to go with an IC in my opinion. Otherwise you see a lot of brewers complaining that getting from about 90*F to pitch temp takes too much time / water. Downside is I end up buying ice unless there is snow conveniently outside.

 

[blizz81]

I used to have a pre-chiller wired up with my 25' 3/8" IC. I just split the pump output (pump from ice water as mentioned above) into two. Downsides: mess of tubes, and having to extend the prechiller in/out runs higher. I used compression fittings....they never leaked on me, but a fail point, and not a good fail (water in wort). Course if you sweat copper that's an easy fix.


In the end I went with 50' of 1/2". Both of them are very effective / quick when pumping ice water through & stirring the wort. I wouldn't see 10gal batches being a problem especially with the 50' 1/2" guy (there's 4-5 coils above the wort as is with 6gal of wort in my keggle).

 

[Gavin C]

Plate chillers are another option if someone is looking at throwing some money down on an immersion chiller.

Just something to think about from a cost-v-benefit point of view.

 

[blizz81]

Plate chillers are another option if someone is looking at throwing some money down on an immersion chiller.

Just something to think about from a cost-v-benefit point of view.

Yeah, but ICs are just so delightfully laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazy.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

That's really the way to go with an IC in my opinion. Otherwise you see a lot of brewers complaining that getting from about 90*F to pitch temp takes too much time / water. Downside is I end up buying ice unless there is snow conveniently outside.

I make my own ice...blocks. About 30-40 #'s of block ice for 9.5 gallons of wort.

 

[HTH1975]

Thumbs up on making your own ice - I've got a couple of mixing bowls in the freezer, so that's some BIG blocks of ice to keep the water cool.

Rather than recirculate the warmed water from the coil back into a iced-water supply, I'm thinking that a better idea will be to drain off the heated water down the drain, then manually add cold tap water in the iced-water container. It's more water (and that waste does bother me), but Im thinking that recirculating hot water back into an iced-water container is very quickly going to end up with water that is too warm to chill the wort effectively.

 

[Gavin C]

Thumbs up on making your own ice - I've got a couple of mixing bowls in the freezer, so that's some BIG blocks of ice to keep the water cool.

Rather than recirculate the warmed water from the coil back into a iced-water supply, I'm thinking that a better idea will be to drain off the heated water down the drain, then manually add cold tap water in the iced-water container. It's more water (and that waste does bother me), but Im thinking that recirculating hot water back into an iced-water container is very quickly going to end up with water that is too warm to chill the wort effectively.

Or you can collect the hot water (regardless of type of chiller used) in a bucket or two and use it for cleaning.

The ice and aquarium pump is typically done after using tap water through the chiller first till ~100F and then switching the water source for the chiller from tap to your iced water reservoir and recirculate it.

The key is keeping the temperature difference between the wort and coolant as large as practical.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Thumbs up on making your own ice - I've got a couple of mixing bowls in the freezer, so that's some BIG blocks of ice to keep the water cool.

Rather than recirculate the warmed water from the coil back into a iced-water supply, I'm thinking that a better idea will be to drain off the heated water down the drain, then manually add cold tap water in the iced-water container. It's more water (and that waste does bother me), but Im thinking that recirculating hot water back into an iced-water container is very quickly going to end up with water that is too warm to chill the wort effectively.

To 140 f (stop of hop conversion) I tend to use just water but by then I have TWICE the water I need to clean my one vessel. After that, ice chilled water though the pump. Old bottling bucket with 10 # of block ice...run 'til no ice while having half a cigar...drain, 10 # ice and fresh water....rinse, repeat until you hit 60 f.

As block ice is impossible to find these days, also work great for 4-day trips to the track...40#'s in block form keep 3 coolers of food cold all weekend...OK, we start with 3 coolers.

 

[blizz81]

I would think 40lb of block ice would work if you were recirculating from the get-go. In the winter we use 2x 20lb bags of ice and we don't drain any water (ice rink on driveway), and we're generally chilled somewhere within 5-10 mins.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I put a pot in the sink under the faucet with a fountain pump in the pot.I keep the cold water running and drain the hot down the sink using an IC.Water is a hell of a lot cheaper than ice in my area.Works pretty quick and no ice.Lately Ive been getting it to around 90 deg and rack.I pitch the next day.Havent had any issues with infections.From 90 to 65 is the longest part of the chill.

 

[HTH1975]

To 140 f (stop of hop conversion) I tend to use just water but by then I have TWICE the water I need to clean my one vessel. After that, ice chilled water though the pump. Old bottling bucket with 10 # of block ice...run 'til no ice while having half a cigar...drain, 10 # ice and fresh water....rinse, repeat until you hit 60 f.

As block ice is impossible to find these days, also work great for 4-day trips to the track...40#'s in block form keep 3 coolers of food cold all weekend...OK, we start with 3 coolers.

I like your style - I do like a cheeky cigar myself. I've got a (makeshift) humidor setup and aging certainly seems to improve the smoke. I'm fond of Rocky Patel sun grown. Its a bit cold for smoking at the minute. I don't know why, but there is something about a warm day with the sun on your face that goes well with a good smoke.

 

[mredge73]

Hi all, I'm new to brewing and I'm just about to make an immersion coil to chill wort.

As I understand, the normal method is to run cold water through the coil as it's sitting in the hot-wort kettle.

I've thought of an alternative way. You could recirculate the hot wort through the coil, and have the coil in a separate kettle of iced water.

Has anyone done this before?

Is it likely to cool the wort quicker?

I use a similar method to this.
I have a HERMS coil in my HLT (50' x 1/2" SS) that is used for the mash and doubles as my cooling coil. It is much slower than my plate chiller but works fine. HLT is filled with cool tap water and frozen water bottles are added to lower the temp; hot wort is pumped through coil and heat is transfered to the cool water in an opposite manner than how the mash works. I usually will change the water at least once and add more ICE bottles.

In summary: Less water is needed, ICE is needed, more time is needed (more ice the lower the time), and less dishes to wash when done. To me the last part is the most important.