wood aged liquor experiment

[fredthecat]

several months ago i took some 35% (yeah i know it's a funny percent) alcohol and put it on 1oz oak chips for 2 weeks, then bottled it. one was bottled with about 3% maple syrup added.

the alcohol was soju, which was supposed to be just alcohol and water, but tasted slightly, slightly sweet and dissimilar to vodka. through reading about alcohol preparation, i think it might have been glycerine added to the product?

well, about 3 months later the result is that it was a waste of good oak chips. the tastes never really meshed together and it tastes like the bad aspects of wood and a separate alcohol flavour. it's drinkable and i guess superior from soju because the wood distracts you from how crappy soju is.

if i try it again, i might try to carbon filter (or brita filter) the soju and then cut down the oak by half, but toast it first. gonna let 2 bottles age for 6 months more or so and see what happens...

anyone else with similar experiences?

 

[fredthecat]

no one replied but in case anyone out there was/is curious...

second batch: i stuck tubing on a watercooler waterfilter with activated carbon inside, put sweet tasting 35% soju through it and it came out tasting like minerally vodka. i aged the vodka on oak chips again, mixed some with fruit syrup and others with honey. they need much longer than the 5 months i gave them to rest, but definitely tasty and a very good learning experience.

tried some even lmore recently with 50% alcohol, and the higher alcohol seems to have extracted some nice vanillins and aromas.

 

[worlddivides]

Just so you know, soju is not crappy. There is good soju and bad soju.

The first time I ever had whiskey, I thought whiskey was incredibly crappy and the reason why was because I had really crappy whiskey. It took a while before I tried it again and I'm a huge fan of whiskey now.

Shochu, which is basically the same thing as soju except from Japan instead of Korea, has a wide range of qualities and costs. You can find a bottle of shochu for less than $5 or for more than $100.

Likewise, vodka also has a wide range of quality. Obviously Popov and Grey Goose are opposite ends of the spectrum. Vodka is generally not aged in oak barrels, but there is a Polish kind of vodka that is aged in oak barrels that is absolutely delicious and called "Starka" (oftentimes aged as long as 50 years):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starka

Laaaastly, reading your second post, since alcohol is a solvent, the higher the alcohol percentage, the more extraction you will get. That is why shochu and soju are not good alcohols to age in wood. The most common alcohol percentage for both shochu and soju is around 21% and 24% (and I think 35% is the highest percentage of soju made, although there might be some rare ones higher than that I don't know about).

Your post has given me the idea that Starka could be made at home with oak chips which is something I had never thought about before.

 

[DSorenson]

"Wood Aged Liquor"

I think they call this "whiskey"...

 

[worlddivides]

"Wood Aged Liquor"

I think they call this "whiskey"...

Nope.

The following are all wood-aged liquors:

Brandy (this is the oldest wood-aged liquor on the planet)
Tequila (any tequila other than "silver")
Rum (any rum other than "white")
Starka (vodka that is wood-aged)
Whiskey (all kinds of whiskey are wood-aged just like all kinds of brandy are wood-aged)

And there are more than just those.

If a liquor being aged in wood made it a whiskey, "dark rum" would be "whiskey," "tequila añejo" would be "whiskey," "cognac" would be "whiskey," and on and on and on.

The OP's concoction does not meet a single requirement of whiskey in the US, Scotland, Ireland, Canada, or Japan.

 

[worlddivides]

Quote deleted for namecalling. Taken care of. - Mod

Uh... what? You were trying to make whiskey? Then you were going about it all wrong.

I was on your side and you're getting pissed off at me because someone else called your experiment "whiskey" and I was explaining that "whiskey" isn't the only wood-aged liquor out there?

Did you even read the posts or did you just respond in an explosion of anger without reading anything? Where is all this anger coming from?

 

[Airplanedoc]

Rum (any rum other than "white")

.

White rum is aged in used oak barrels, as well. It's just filtered afterward to remove the color.

 

[worlddivides]

White rum is aged in used oak barrels, as well. It's just filtered afterward to remove the color.

Then I guess that just broadens the already very broad field of wood-aged spirits even further.

 

[DGibb]

I am planning on getting a small 1L barrel and aging myself a whiskey from a base of white lightning (likely Buffalo Trace). Have any of you done this?

 

[worlddivides]

I am planning on getting a small 1L barrel and aging myself a whiskey from a base of white lightning (likely Buffalo Trace). Have any of you done this?

A good friend of mine has done that with a gallon-sized small oak barrel (or maybe it was 1 liter) and freshly distilled rye and barley "white lightning" that he bought from a local distillery. I haven't tasted it myself, but he said that it turned out pretty good. I think he only aged it for four to six months, though.

I didn't know that Buffalo Trace sold their unaged product, but I love everything the Buffalo Trace distillery makes, so if you can get some from them, I think you're guaranteed to have a high-quality base.

 

[DGibb]

It's called Buffalo Trace White Dog. I would use the rye mash over the wheat mash (I prefer the spiciness that comes through more with rye). I know it at least has to pass through oak on the way to bottling, so it may have mere minutes of age rather than longer stretches.

I also see that Jack Daniels has a Unaged Rye Whiskey that would be interesting to age, especially since my family is particularly fond of Mr. Daniels' spirit.

 

[worlddivides]

It's called Buffalo Trace White Dog. I would use the rye mash over the wheat mash (I prefer the spiciness that comes through more with rye). I know it at least has to pass through oak on the way to bottling, so it may have mere minutes of age rather than longer stretches.

I also see that Jack Daniels has a Unaged Rye Whiskey that would be interesting to age, especially since my family is particularly fond of Mr. Daniels' spirit.

I didn't know Buffalo Trace sold anything like that. I imagine that would definitely work pretty well.

 

[Strut]

You can get legal, high quality, un-aged white whiskey (not technically a bourbon quite yet) here in Kentucky for dirt cheap ,if you know when and where to look. At around $5/750ml you couldn't make it yourself for less. A few months in a small barrel and it makes for a real nice drink.

 

[fredthecat]

I am planning on getting a small 1L barrel and aging myself a whiskey from a base of white lightning (likely Buffalo Trace). Have any of you done this?

You can get legal, high quality, un-aged white whiskey (not technically a bourbon quite yet) here in Kentucky for dirt cheap ,if you know when and where to look. At around $5/750ml you couldn't make it yourself for less. A few months in a small barrel and it makes for a real nice drink.

Thank you, so this is what i wanted to discuss originally. My experiment ended up telling me two things which I hope others can learn from. 1. the ABV affects what the wood does big time. buffalo trace being 62.5% should be good. maybe do a period of time at that strength, cut it down to low 50s, let it sit again and then dilute it (or not) to what final or other strength you'd want. 2. time matters, and the best thing would be to let it sit as long as you possibly can. because you've got it sitting for so, so long you ought to go all out and get much more than 1 litre. sitting on 1 litre of a spirit for a year ends up just seeming like a waste imho.


the alcohol i've got on hand i have to carbon filter first to remove stupid "flavour" additives, back in north america if you can get white dog type stuff that is even better. good luck. also consider thinking about maple wood, cedar, etc.

 

[DGibb]

buffalo trace being 62.5% should be good. maybe do a period of time at that strength, cut it down to low 50s, let it sit again and then dilute it (or not) to what final or other strength you'd want.

I would likely leave mine at "cask strength" so people can dilute it to their own liking.

2. time matters, and the best thing would be to let it sit as long as you possibly can. because you've got it sitting for so, so long you ought to go all out and get much more than 1 litre. sitting on 1 litre of a spirit for a year ends up just seeming like a waste imho.

My biggest concern is over-oaking. I will check it every couple weeks and then rebottle when I think it's ready.

*****

Incidentally, Strut, can I get the $5/750mL white lightning sent to Michigan? If not, can we set some exchange of legal liquors that would be mutually beneficial?

 

[solbes]

I've done this with toasted oak cubes (bordeaux blend meant for wine has mulitple toast levels mixed in the bag). 5 or 6 cubes per 750 mL and there does not seem to be a max time. Cubes have far less surface area than chips. So far it has worked pretty well for cheap 100% agave blanco tequila and cheap blended scotch (Red Label). Flavor really improved with >1 year on oak for both of these. We brought a 1.5L of the cheap tequila to a beach house a few years ago to make margaritas and drink shots. I got a lot of favorable questions asking what kind it was so they could buy some

I haven't tried on any of the good stuff we have, but on the cheap stuff I think its worth the effort. A small barrel would be cooler for sure, and probably have a better final result. Hard to fill even a 5G barrel with enough liquor.

 

[fredthecat]

forgot to mention that the alcohol takes on less colour than you'd think unless you set the wood on fire and char it then put out the fire.

 

[solbes]

With the pre-toasted oak cubes, it does take on additional color. See if you can find some, they are $5 for 3 oz here. Works great for beer also.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/bordeaux-oak-blend-3-oz.html

 

[Strut]

Incidentally, Strut, can I get the $5/750mL white lightning sent to Michigan? If not, can we set some exchange of legal liquors that would be mutually beneficial?

I'd love to swap with you, but I'd be afraid to send these bottles in the mail. I did a bit of research, and even though they are legally taxed, I don't think they are labeled for interstate commerce.

With that said, you can get commercial aged bourbon here for not much more. I buy 1.75L sour mash bourbon, aged 2+ years for less than $20. 43%. I can send you as much of this as you'd like

 

[fredthecat]

in korea good beer is prohibitively expensive, but distilled liquor is dirt DIRT cheap. the cheap crap is 1 dollar a bottle for ~20% alcohol. i choose from 2 litre jugs of 50% alcohol for 10 dollars and mix down with 5 litre jugs of 35% alcohol for 15 dollars. 5 litres of 35% alcohol for 15 dollars.

end result a 330ml beer bottle full of 40% "whiskey" (or gin, vodka or fruit booze) costs me about $2.00, all costs factored in. i just have to wait a long time for it

a 330ml bottle of american craft beer costs 7-8 dollars at the grocery store by comparison. crazy

 

[worlddivides]

in korea good beer is prohibitively expensive, but distilled liquor is dirt DIRT cheap. the cheap crap is 1 dollar a bottle for ~20% alcohol. i choose from 2 litre jugs of 50% alcohol for 10 dollars and mix down with 5 litre jugs of 35% alcohol for 15 dollars. 5 litres of 35% alcohol for 15 dollars.

end result a 330ml beer bottle full of 40% "whiskey" (or gin, vodka or fruit booze) costs me about $2.00, all costs factored in. i just have to wait a long time for it

a 330ml bottle of american craft beer costs 7-8 dollars at the grocery store by comparison. crazy

I can totally identify with the crazy prices of imported American craft beer. I lived in Japan for 10 years and, while American craft beer was never sold in super markets (only being sold in very large liquor stores), a 330ml bottle of American craft beer also cost around $6-10, usually closer to $8-10, though.

Interesting to hear about how expensive Korean beer is over there, though. I used to drink imported Korean beer every now and then, and it ranged from "insanely cheap" (for the really low quality beer - which my girlfriend at the time occasionally bought just to try) to just "cheap" (for the decent and enjoyable, but not amazing beers). I wonder if it's one of those situations where the product is cheaper in foreign countries than in the country where it's made (for example, I bought one of my guitars (Japan-made) in Japan for $1000 about 8-9 years ago. The exact same guitar in the US cost $800. Apparently this is very common among many different companies too.).

 

[DSorenson]

Nope.

The following are all wood-aged liquors:

Brandy (this is the oldest wood-aged liquor on the planet)
Tequila (any tequila other than "silver")
Rum (any rum other than "white")
Starka (vodka that is wood-aged)
Whiskey (all kinds of whiskey are wood-aged just like all kinds of brandy are wood-aged)

And there are more than just those.

If a liquor being aged in wood made it a whiskey, "dark rum" would be "whiskey," "tequila añejo" would be "whiskey," "cognac" would be "whiskey," and on and on and on.

The OP's concoction does not meet a single requirement of whiskey in the US, Scotland, Ireland, Canada, or Japan.

This is what I get for trying to make a wise-guy comment for laughs... a guy who takes it seriously.

 

[worlddivides]

This is what I get for trying to make a wise-guy comment for laughs... a guy who takes it seriously.

If it was a joke, I really don't get it. There are tons of different liquors that are aged in wood (usually oak), all of them following very specific requirements. I don't see how soju aged in oak could be called "whiskey" any more than it could be called "brandy" or "tequila."

 

[fredthecat]

seeing as this is not a distilling board, i dont want to discuss it too much, but the whole definition thing is actually inaccurate in a practical sense.

jack daniels (for example) is alcohol made into essentially ethanol/water with minimal flavouring components remaining. it is then put through a charcoal filtration system and stored in oak barrels. the oak interaction creates (i have read somewhere) roughly 80% of it's flavour.

so if you want to use some bureaucratic government description of what this alcohol "is", you can.

 

[worlddivides]

seeing as this is not a distilling board, i dont want to discuss it too much, but the whole definition thing is actually inaccurate in a practical sense.

jack daniels (for example) is alcohol made into essentially ethanol/water with minimal flavouring components remaining. it is then put through a charcoal filtration system and stored in oak barrels. the oak interaction creates (i have read somewhere) roughly 80% of it's flavour.

so if you want to use some bureaucratic government description of what this alcohol "is", you can.

You can. And everyone does.

The average person on the street probably won't know the legal specifics of what differentiates whiskey from tequila or brandy, but anyone who drinks spirits will know the difference. You can't make brandy from corn. You can't make tequila from grapes. You can't make whiskey from sugar cane. If they were all the same, then you wouldn't get people saying stuff like "I love whiskey, but can't drink tequila" or "I hate all spirits except rum" and so on.

If you think that ethanol and wood were the only things that made a spirit have flavor, then it wouldn't matter what the spirit was made from. Even in the cases where distillers do use 80% ABV (which is the legal upper limit for bourbon when it is put in the barrel in the US), that 20% is still very important. Not downplaying the value of the wood. For aged spirits, it is arguably the most important factor in flavor, but no one would think it's the only factor. You don't buy a whiskey to get 100% oak flavor just like you don't buy a wine for 100% oak flavor.

 

[fredthecat]

yeah, so irrelevantries to the side: the results of my "wood aged liquor experiment" after about 6 months. i made it after the first batch/post i made.

tastings:
1. activated-carbon filtered soju at 35% aged on oak for two weeks- 7 months later - colour is a medium gold. smell is buttery, sweet. taste is spicy, sweet, sort of peppery in an off-flavour kind of way. noticeable cardboard flavour. notably mild alcohol burn, easy to sip.

2. activated carbon filtered soju at 50% aged on oak for two weeks-diluted to 42%. - 5 months later - smell is stronger/richer than previous example but similar-strong butter, cake-sweet odour-sort of smell verging on but not banana. taste is much more aggressive. alcohol, small vanilla and oakiness. tastes like something i'd buy commercially.

3. drambuie-esque attempt using 42% alcohol, 1/4 volume honey and rosemary, anise and tiny tangerine peel. - 5 months later- taste: herbal-almost minty, little orange, quite sweet and full. spicyness/sharpness is strong. complex flavours that work pretty well together.

thoughts:
drambuie-honey liqueur was a great idea, wish i made more of it despite the increased cost due to honey. others enjoyed it the most as well. best way to hide the low quality alcohol's inherent properties is to smother it in strong flavours.

50% alc solution is enjoyable as a cheap but flavourful alcohol. it cost me about $2 per 500ml of 42% alcohol all materials included and is a good discussion piece/learning experience.

wouldn't really bother again unless i had access to at the very least 50% neutral alcohol at a cheap price.

i also made a gin using filtered alcohol and spices/botanicals. it was really impressive (though colour was amber) and i will do that again in a larger amount when i can.

hopefully someone will use these notes

 

[fredthecat]

2 years later. smoothed out more, got generally spicy. a lot of the junk off-flavours have left.

hot in the tumtum. 2 year update on this.

 

[masonsjax]

This thread over on the home distiller forum is a long but good read packed with info on wood aging alcohol:
http://ww1.homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=50348