WLP090-San Diego Super Yeast Performance

[TastyAdventure]

I like it. Clean yeast. I mashed at 158 and it did 77% attn to make my beer something like 8.5%. Actually the 2 times I've used it have been 2 of my best. All I had fr temp control at the time was a swamp bath, so I don't imagine it is too sensitive to temp variations.... Not that I think about it... I should go get some more of this

 

[fimpster]

I had never used this yeast before until 10 days ago. I have a split batch (CYBI Dead Guy) in fermenters right now one carboy is 090 and the other is 001. The 090 actually took off about 12-18 hours behind the 001, but did seem to ferment faster. They are both is the same ferm cooler at ~66°F. Looking to bottle in another 10-12 days and looking forward to the taste test!

 

[j1n]

I ferment this yeast at 66-67F and its very clean and fast fermenting. Even my starters finish faster than any other yest ive used. i heard this yeast can have issues if not kept between 65-68 as recommended but i never had any issues since i have a ferment chamber.

 

[biertourist]

Notice that the temperature optimal range is much narrower than most white labs products. Also: high flocculators tend to need a lot of oxygen (see: English yeasts like WLP002, 006 and 007), and this strain also likes a lot of oxygen- I've definitely gotten better performance out of it (faster ferments and flocs) since stepping up to pure O2 about a year ago, the only way to properly oxygenate your wort to the optimal 8ppm dO2.

Certain malts, in particular, can be a little off-putting to me, and I pick them up as a slight slickness or butter-nuttiness you might expect from diacetyl.

Wow, so much amazing stuff in this post; you get a "Like!" (and I don't give that many).

Do you have any references or links that support the idea that english strains often require higher levels of oxygen? -I'm not saying that I doubt you, only that data would be appreciated. Honestly it kind of makes sense when you consider the English tradition of open fermentation -English strains could have developed a preference from being fermented in higher oxygen environments.

For what it's worth though the 8ppm isn't a universal recommendation; high gravity worts should have higher concentrations, as should lagers (12ppm starting point); -it's interesting that it's harder to get oxygen to dissolve in high gravity worts AND they actually require more oxygen, too. Reference: Institute of Brewing and Distilling's General Certificate in Brewing- Fermentation Manual (should be available as a PDF free online).

On the diacetyl point: it's awesome that you noticed this. Golden Promise malt ("scottish Marris Otter") is actually FAMOUS for tricking people (with less structured tasting experience) into thinking that they're tasting diacetyl. Brewers are actually slowly abandoning it because Americans taste UK beers made with the malt and they vote down the beer as having a "fault" on beer rating websites despite the breweries use of expensive HPLC testing to validate that no diacetyl and diacetyl percursors (VDKs) are present.

Further on the diacetyl point, diacetyl is SUPPOSED to be in some English beers and personally I think diacetyl really adds to those beers. This modern American jihad against diacetyl, I find really off-putting. Wine makers specifically perform malolactic fermentation on most red wines and some white wines (think California Chardonnay) BECAUSE THEY WANT / LIKE DIACETYL and it adds to the mouthfeel and flavor. -Yes, they also perform malolactic fermentation because it turns harsher malic acid into lactic acid and mellows the acidity of the wine, but ALSO because of the positive flavor enhancement brought by diacetyl.

Personally I think diacetyl is most often delicious; although I have had some rushed lagers that were disgustingly overladen with diacetyl, they're the exception to the rule.


I'm actually even more interested in using WLP 090 again to try and coax that Diacetyl out of it, now.

The Fuller's strain is famous for being a diacetyl producer; Fuller's ESB is possibly the most complex beer for it's strength, bar none and part of that deliciously complex flavor is diacetyl. P.S. ESB's not a style; I'm sorry BJCP but a single beer does not a style make, even if you really like that single beer!

Also interestingly: people generally speak of yeast as "diacetyl producers" but in reality all yeast produce diacetyl and roughly the same quantity; where the strains differ is in their ability to TAKE BACK UP diacetyl and convert it to acetoin. -We taste a beer and say "it's diacetyly; this yeast must produce a lot of diacetyl" when in reality it's just bad at soaking it back up.


Adam

 

[biertourist]

I can't imagine you'll get enough efficiency to get anywhere near that OG, and if you do, I don't think you'll be able to hop it enough to make a decent IIPA. Remember, IBU perception tops out around 100-110 IBU, so if your OG gets much over 1.1, your beer is just getting sweeter and sweeter with no more IBUs to balance it out. I would imagine you'd have to use a ton of simple sugars and/or extracts to get an OG that high and that's not going to make for a tasty IIPA either.

Great, great advice here, too. I was going to say the same. If you want an even remotely "dry" finish, the bigger you go the more simple sugar you want; you want more base malt -tone down the speciality % as the OG grows.

Simple sugars help further; save them for the end because when yeast get fed too much simple sugars early on they stop fermenting maltose and then your beer ends up EVEN SWEETER.


I also agree about using hop extracts to try and drive up bitterness.
Swapping some of your malt for simple sugars also helps out with the IBUs in crazy strong beers like this; -one of the primary things driving down actual mg of isoalpha acids in solution is the flocculation of proteins ala hot and cold break which pull out isoalpha acids with them. By swapping to simple sugars you have less protein load and more of those ibus stay in solution. -Hmm... I wonder if you could add pre-isomerized alpha extract in the fermenter to really make sure you keep those alpha acids in solution.


Adam

 

[biertourist]

The WLP099 could handle it easily, but the real question is, can the WLP090, and if so, what will the fermentation wort additions look like?

Yea, but WLP099 tastes like crap; you might as well use a distillers yeast if you just want alcohol...


Adam

 

[biertourist]

I've got enough hop additions to get it to 130 IBU so it will easily age for a year without losing too much bitterness. Obviously, a balanced traditional IPA is NOT what this recipe is about, as the Imperial should say on its own.

No, you're going to lose a lot of bitterness no matter what you start with when you age it for a year. -Find a hop that has low alpha acid to beta acid ratio to keep the bitterness up during extended aging; the alphas fade rapidly during aging but betas stay around and oxidize and are actually more bitter so this can help.

Oxidation is one of the primary things that will drive down the bitterness so minimize it at all costs; actually consider adding a more neutral / citrusy Brett strain at bottling; it will help keep away oxidation better than almost anything and will help keep the hoppy flavor around longer during aging; it will also help dry out that beer further as it ages.

Adam

 

[1van]

I just recently used this yeast for the first time. Harvested a couple samples from my starter and then stepped the starter up one time to use on a 1.074 autunm ale. Pitched seven days ago. Airlock activity has been bill for the last 3 days. Hydrometer sample was at 1.014. Almost 83% attenuation!! I can vouch for the same experience with my starter. 2 days and it was dropped to final gravity and the starter wort was the clearest I have ever seen! Maybe 002 was close. This yeast seems to be a beast and the sample was very well balanced in nature. Just what I was hoping for.

I will also say that temps were not super controlled here either. It is the time of year that temps swing from 99 to 75 in one day. This beer was fermented in a swamp cooler set up with a fan and blow off tube.

Very impressed thus far and am considering using it for a maibock type beer....ala Dead guy

 

[Bamsdealer]

Ho old were the vials of yeast, you very well may have under pitched. 1.080 is a high gravity beer that you probably should have made a starter with.

Well within the use by date. I did do a starter for the first ipa then pitched half the cake into the bigger beer. I was out of o2 for the bigger beer but used it on the first. Still wouldnt have expected the results I got...

 

[fimpster]

I just bottled my CYBI Dead Guy double batch tonight. I mentioned this earlier in this thread (#32) that the 090 took off slower than the 001 did. What I didn't expect was that 090 also attenuated a little less than 001.

It was a split batch, so everything was identical except the yeast. SG 1.065 for both fermenters, 090 finished at 1.015 and 001 finished at 1.013. Both were pitched at 66°-67° and kept in the same ferm cooler at ~66° for two weeks and then allowed to raise to ambient temp, about 68°-69° for another 11 days. Both yeast were pitched straight from the vial, no starter.

Both yeasts attenuated to within their expected ranges, but 090 can supposedly attenuate a bit more than 001. I guess I wasn't so lucky.

It's probably not a fair comparison yet, but I liked the hydro sample better from the 090 than 001. Of course 090 is also supposedly closer to the pacman used in Dead Guy. We'll see how they do after bottle conditioning.

 

[1van]

Well I can say I just sampled my fully carbed autumn ale, and It is perfect....clean cans crisp letting the subtly of the spices be highlighted. I have quickly turned around and used this in a cream ale also. Strange that yours attenuated less, according to my notes the 001 I have used in this very recipe over the last few years has always attenuated less than this batch with 090 in it. I would tend to say, with a SG of 1.065, it is kind of luck of the draw to pitch straight from the vial and not have a stall somewhere. When you couple that with the aforementioned narrow temperature range, my guess is if you did it again but this time with a starter the results would be different. It is a super yeast in the areas of flocculation and attenuation, but resiliency.....perhaps not as much

 

[EvolutionAles]

So I've been reading a lot of negative comments on here about the yeast strain, but does anyone have something positive? Looking for some hope!

I made a 1.082 OG Stout the other day and pitched an English Ale yeast that has a max attenuation of 71%... did it for the flavor profile and it usually kicks out on day 3. 48hrs after fermentation started I pitched a 2ltr starter of WLP090 in hopes to achieve the 83%+ attenuation that's listed on White Labs website. Currently keeping the ferm temp at a steady 68F and the krausen is going strong!

Thoughts/Concerns/Comments?? Can anyone recommend something to help this finish out on a high note??

 

[fimpster]

I think if you made a starter you'll be fine.

I have an update on the batch that I've posted about in this thread; post #32 and #40. The half that got 001 carbed up beautiful in 2.5 weeks. The batch that got 090 has only the tiniest of carbonation going on 7 week now. It's really pretty flat.

I'll have some time off next week and I had thought about opening each one and dropping in a few grains of us05 then recapping and give them a few more weeks. Or, since I just got some new kegs, I might just dump them all in a keg and force carbonate.

That wlp090. I'm. Not sure I'll be using it again any time soon.

 

[catdaddy66]

I've used wlp090 twice and both times I finished at or below 1.010. There was minimal airlock activity as I started at 64-66* and it dropped to 62* (ambient temp)... I thought it was a very clean flavor and flocculates well. I will use it again, for sure.

 

[TastyAdventure]

I've used it twice. Imperial red ale both times.
First time: OG around 1.069, had massive blow off
Second: OG 1.078, no blowoff, but there was a very strong sulphur smell that had me very worried. Luckily it tasted great anyways.

It works fast and hard, don't have my notes in front of me, but it's a good yeast. I had no problem with bottles carbing up in a decent time.

 

[catdaddy66]

Used this yeast for my IPA and pitched around 6 am yesterday. Came home to bubbles in the airlock 12 hours later! This is BY FAR the fastest and most active wlp090 has behaved for me (4-5 uses so far)! Maybe it's because my two step starter was the most successful I've made to date. Love it!

 

[catdaddy66]

Used this yeast for my IPA and pitched around 6 am yesterday. Came home to bubbles in the airlock 12 hours later! This is BY FAR the fastest and most active wlp090 has behaved for me (4-5 uses so far)! Maybe it's because my two step starter was the most successful I've made to date. Love it!

Just took a gravity reading and this yeast brought my IPA from 1.072 down to 1.008! That's 8.8% abv to you and me... This micro organism can leap fermenters in a single pitch!

 

[DromJohn]

I having nothing to add about the performance of this yeast. WLP090 fermented nicely while I didn't watch, measure or fret. However I thought the taste is very clean in AHS SuperCaliFugglisticESBAledocious.

 

[catdaddy66]

Sampling my Green Warrior which used wlp090... I'm drunk off of two glasses! Very clean profile to let the hops and malt shine in a balanced IPA. I'm pretty pleased with my effort!