WLP037 Yorkshire Square >stuck> repitched Windsor

[Llysse]

Just sharing an experience with WLP037 yeast:

We recently had a stuck fermentation with WLP037 in a Sammy Smith Oatmeal Stout clone. Pitched at the correct temperature, although I wonder a little about the correct rate. We made a starter, but the stir plate kept throwing its bar, so I'm not sure how much I increased. It was active when I pitched it after 24 hours. We had a small krausen (16 hours afterwards or so?) which subsided relatively quickly. I didn't think much of it--I've used yeasts that take off like rockets, and yeasts that don't seem to do much of anything, but ferment out just fine. This yeast was so flocculent, though, I did swirl it a few times during the first few days to see if I could keep a little more in suspension.

OG was 1.056, just a little lower than my target. When we checked 12-29 it was still 1.040. Swirled, warmed... checked it again the next day and it was the same. Dammit.

We actually have a couple more vials of the WLP037, but I was leery of repitching the same yeast. It's as if it was so flocculent, it didn't stay in suspension long enough to ferment. But... our "backup" dry yeast is limited. We had Windsor--known for low attenuation--and regular Munton's, which I understand is crap. And we also had a champagne yeast I had on hand to repitch into the barleywine if it didn't attentuate fully (but it did). I wasn't interested interested in drying the stout out that much, if I had another choice!

So... I ended up repitching with Windsor as the lesser of the evils, with some trepidation. However, it began throwing bubbles a few minutes apart, more or less within an hour. Less than 24 hours later, it's going nicely right at 69 and has formed a thick krausen.

I somehow doubt this will be much of a clone, but hopefully it will be tasty, at least. I tend to like slightly sweeter, chewier English brews. I don't know how well repitching with Windsor would have worked if I was stuck at a lower gravity, but it seemed to work well in this situation, at least.

 

[Pappers_]

I used Danstar Windsor in a cream and a cherry stout recently and was very pleased with the results. I was going to use a White Labs English Ale but just didn't get around to making the starter - the Windsor was very good in this batch.

Cheers!

 

[jmo88]

I'm making an esb with this tomorrow. Yorkshire brewers are famous for open fermentation. I've read that this yeast, and others like ringwood, quit on you if they are under pressure of closed fermentation. Chances are tht the 037 would have finished out if you gave them some breathing room.

 

[Llysse]

Ahhh... thanks, that's good to know, especially since I have two more vials of this strain. I understood that about Ringwood, but I've never ventured to try it. The White Labs site doesn't specifically mention a requirement of open home fermentation with the WLP037, although of course I do know about the Yorkshire square slabs... hm. I wonder if we got the little fermentation we did because we have some altitude here at home that allowed it to go a while before the pressure built up...?

On the other hand, the Windsor fermented like a beast, and even blew a little out on top, although there was no real mess to speak of. Hope it turns out well in the end. I don't suppose the mediocre flocculation will matter too awful much in our oatmeal stout, but I may rack onto gelatin for kicks. Pappers, did you worry about that with your cherry stout?

I'll have to read a little more on WLP037and open fermentation before we use this yeast next. Hopefully, jmo88, you'll post a follow-up to share how the Yorkshire does with your ESB? Thanks again for posting.

 

[Pappers_]

On the other hand, the Windsor fermented like a beast, and even blew a little out on top, although there was no real mess to speak of. Hope it turns out well in the end. I don't suppose the mediocre flocculation will matter too awful much in our oatmeal stout, but I may rack onto gelatin for kicks. Pappers, did you worry about that with your cherry stout?

Llysse - I let the stout ferment out, then racked into a carboy with cherry puree. The Windsor yeast started up again, eating away the fruit sugars, with krausen and the works. I let the fermentation play out again, then racked and bottled.

For stouts generally, I don't worry about flocculation. I also wouldn't do the gelatin in an oatmeal stout - I can't think of any harm in doing it, but I also don't see any benefit, the beer doesn't need to be cleared, its supposed to be dark and murky

 

[Llysse]

I was surprised... after reading so many complaints about slow, stuck fermentation with Windsor. I didn't expect it to take off the way it did--but I was glad! I don't normally worry about flocculation with stouts, either, but the yeast normally used for this beer is so flocculent, I'm wondering if there won't be some taste difference if there's a lot of Windsor yeast left in suspension. And heck, I don't think it will hurt. But we'll see how motivated I am when the time comes.

 

[14thstreet]

Llysse, I've brewed an oatmeal stout recipe from Northern Brewer and an ordinary bitter with this yeast. I made a 1L starter the day before brewing the stout. Over a month long closed fermentation, it went from 1.050-1.017 for a 65% apparent attenuation, which is on the low end for this yeast as stated by White Labs. I felt with the amount of specialty grains and my 155F mash temp, it was done. I bottled and the beer is very overcarbonated. I suspect a stuck fermentation at the end, despite attempts to rouse the yeast.

I saved the yeast cake and used a part of it in a starter to wake it up for a smaller 2 gallon batch. I may have pitched too much yeast, but the ordinary bitter is a much simpler recipe, same mash temp, and it went from 1.035-1.008 in 8 days. This was fermented in two fermenters, one open one closed. Same attenuation, same flavor profile a week later.

Conclusion? The yeast may perform better on subsequent batches or work with simpler recipes. However, I've not been able to ascertain much character from this yeast so far. It has me stumped and disappointed.

 

[Llysse]

Hm, that's disappointing. Thanks for sharing that.

We still have the two vials of this yeast we haven't used yet--I've been afraid! I've been considering writing White Labs to ask about the open fermentation thing, stuck fermentations, etc., with the Yorkshire Square yeast. Seems as if they should warn you if open fermentation (or any other special techniques) are required. I was sort of given to understand that OF works better with wide, shallow vessels, although I don't suppose it could make too much difference at the volume we brew. Yours went further than ours did, for sure, before it got stuck.

This settles it, I guess. I'll go ahead and write to inquire about what other reports of problems they've had about this yeast. Maybe they have some advice. Last time I was on the site, there were no reviews of it, yet. I'd hate the purchase to be a waste, but I'm not really willing to throw good money after bad and get stuck fermentations on two more batches! I'd rather just buy two more (different) vials of yeast that will work, and write these off.

 

[UnderThePorchBrewing]

I've used Windsor several times for porters and stouts and find it to be very good. yes it attenuates low but overall I find the taste good. in a prior post when I asked about Windsor I was told it's flavor profile was "underwhelming". honestly this is the best description, the flavor is subtle and does not overpower the brew and lets the ingredients' taste come thru while still giving that English ale taste and character. I usually brew 2.5 or 3 gallons and use a whole pack of yeast and so far no stuck fermentations. Hope it turns out well for you