Witbier Wit Power (Allagash White clone)

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BeezBrew

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Location
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Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
WLP400
Yeast Starter
Yes, 2L
Batch Size (Gallons)
5.25
Original Gravity
1.048
Final Gravity
1.014
Boiling Time (Minutes)
75
IBU
22.8
Color
3.8
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
14 Days 65F
Tasting Notes
Below
This is based primarily on recipes i found online, although they were mostly using extract. So i emailed Jason Perkins, head brewer at Allagash, and this is what he suggested:

"There are many different wheat varities and percentages you can go with depending on the exact flavor profile you are going with. We use about 15 percent malted red wheat and 25 percent unmalted ( raw) white wheat. I find that the raw wheat adds a nice cracker/cereal like wheat flavor, while helping with the haze."

So with this, i went with the below recipe. Hops are similar to what i found on the net. Since i couldn't find "bitter orange" and didn't want to go with the homebrew store stuff, i zested 2 oranges and 1/4 grapefruit to imitate the traditional bitter orange aroma and taste.


Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 10.42
Anticipated OG: 1.048 Plato: 11.86
Anticipated SRM: 3.8
Anticipated IBU: 22.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 63 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 5.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.041 SG 10.14 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
60.0 6.25 lbs. Pilsener Belgium 1.037 2
14.9 1.55 lbs. Wheat Malt America 1.038 2
25.1 2.62 lbs. Flaked Soft White Wheat America 1.034 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.75 oz. Tettnanger Tettnang Pellet 4.50 16.6 60 min.
0.25 oz. Saazer Pellet 4.30 5.3 60 min.
0.25 oz. Saazer Pellet 4.30 0.9 1 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.50 Oz Orange Peel (2 oranges) Spice 0 Min.(boil)
Grapefruit (1/4 zest) Spice 0 Min. (boil)
0.50 Oz Corriander Seed Spice 0 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP400 Belgian Wit Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name:

Total Grain Lbs: 10.42
Total Water Qts: 10.42 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 2.61 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 80.00 F

Tasting Notes: As you can see from appearance below, my beer is a bit darker, a little less head, but pretty similar. Wit power has a more raw wheat, dough and cracker aroma compared to Allagash which was more clove spicy, orange, coriander and soft fruit tones. Tastes were fairly similar, mine was lacking the spice component that was present in Allagash. Allagash also had a soft fruit component that i think is coming from the hops. But malt components are right on. Mouthfeel very similar as well.

Not bad, my coriander was old so next time i will add some fresher stuff. I think i had enough orange in my version, maybe a bit more knockout hops to bring that soft fruit aspect that mine is missing. Oh, and find some curacao or seville oranges to really nail that aspect. Other than that, the malt bill is perfect. Give it a try and let me know what you think.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/UWcollegeguy732/witcomparison.jpg
 

harlond

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I made a 1-gallon BIAB version of this on Super Bowl Sunday:

1.42 lbs Weyerman Pilsner malt
0.40 lbs Weyerman light wheat malt
0.52 lbs flaked wheat
4 grams Tettnanger added at 80 minutes
2 grams Saaz added at 80 minutes
2 grams Saaz added at 5 minutes
2 grams coriander and a few white peppercorns added at 40 minutes
2 grams orange zest added at flameout
2 grams grapefruit zest added at flameout
1.5 grams ginger added at flameout
WLP400 yeast

I upped the orange and grapefruit based on Beezbrew's comment that his didn't taste quite as fruity as Allagash. I upped the coriander because mine was old, too. I added the ginger and white peppercorns because other clone recipes I've seen mentioned them and Beezbrew mentioned that his beer didn't have quite the spice component of Allagash. (Incidentally, I've seen about 5 clone recipes, and they are all quite different.)

Fermentation got off to a slow start, was going nicely, not too strong at 34 hours. Then when I came home 45 hours after pitching, I had to switch from airlock to blowoff tube. Smelled pretty good. Lotta trub on the bottom.

I'll check back in after it's done.
 

BrewinBigD

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This is based primarily on recipes i found online, although they were mostly using extract. So i emailed Jason Perkins, head brewer at Allagash, and this is what he suggested:

"There are many different wheat varities and percentages you can go with depending on the exact flavor profile you are going with. We use about 15 percent malted red wheat and 25 percent unmalted ( raw) white wheat. I find that the raw wheat adds a nice cracker/cereal like wheat flavor, while helping with the haze."

So with this, i went with the below recipe. Hops are similar to what i found on the net. Since i couldn't find "bitter orange" and didn't want to go with the homebrew store stuff, i zested 2 oranges and 1/4 grapefruit to imitate the traditional bitter orange aroma and taste.


Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 10.42
Anticipated OG: 1.048 Plato: 11.86
Anticipated SRM: 3.8
Anticipated IBU: 22.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 63 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 5.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.041 SG 10.14 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
60.0 6.25 lbs. Pilsener Belgium 1.037 2
14.9 1.55 lbs. Wheat Malt America 1.038 2
25.1 2.62 lbs. Flaked Soft White Wheat America 1.034 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.75 oz. Tettnanger Tettnang Pellet 4.50 16.6 60 min.
0.25 oz. Saazer Pellet 4.30 5.3 60 min.
0.25 oz. Saazer Pellet 4.30 0.9 1 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.50 Oz Orange Peel (2 oranges) Spice 0 Min.(boil)
Grapefruit (1/4 zest) Spice 0 Min. (boil)
0.50 Oz Corriander Seed Spice 0 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP400 Belgian Wit Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name:

Total Grain Lbs: 10.42
Total Water Qts: 10.42 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 2.61 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 80.00 F

Tasting Notes: As you can see from appearance below, my beer is a bit darker, a little less head, but pretty similar. Wit power has a more raw wheat, dough and cracker aroma compared to Allagash which was more clove spicy, orange, coriander and soft fruit tones. Tastes were fairly similar, mine was lacking the spice component that was present in Allagash. Allagash also had a soft fruit component that i think is coming from the hops. But malt components are right on. Mouthfeel very similar as well.

Not bad, my coriander was old so next time i will add some fresher stuff. I think i had enough orange in my version, maybe a bit more knockout hops to bring that soft fruit aspect that mine is missing. Oh, and find some curacao or seville oranges to really nail that aspect. Other than that, the malt bill is perfect. Give it a try and let me know what you think.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/UWcollegeguy732/witcomparison.jpg
What were your mash temps again?
 

j1laskey

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You can also harvest/culture the dredges of a few Allagash Whites to use instead of WLP400
 

harlond

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I mashed around 156F Not sure how useful that info is until the beer is done, but FWIW.
 

stikolaboloni

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Can't go wrong with that grain bill coming straight from the horse's mouth. With spring in mind I was wanting to do an Allagash clone for my next batch, so I'm gonna give this a whirl with your comments in mind.

Didn't catch your mash schedule? I'm thinking a beta/protein rest @120 and then mash around 155 or so...
 

harlond

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Can't go wrong with that grain bill coming straight from the horse's mouth. With spring in mind I was wanting to do an Allagash clone for my next batch, so I'm gonna give this a whirl with your comments in mind.

Didn't catch your mash schedule? I'm thinking a beta/protein rest @120 and then mash around 155 or so...
If you're asking me, I BIAB, and I mashed for 75 minutes at about 155 +/- 3. No protein rest.
Beezbrew, thanks for the recipe.
 
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BeezBrew

BeezBrew

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I mashed at 154 for an hour. I'm going to repeat this soon doing either a protein and then sacc rest or perhaps a cereal mash similar to what's described in Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher. I'll try and keep this thread updated.
 

harlond

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I've tasted one after 4 weeks in the bottle. It's going to need some aging. Was my second brew ever, so that's on me. I'll check back in when it's had some more time.
 
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BeezBrew

BeezBrew

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Just brewed the same recipe as above, with the following changes:

1. Added 1 lb of flaked oats. I'm curious how much the mouthfeel will change.
2. Finally bought some Indian Coriander (wow, what a difference) and added 1 oz. at flameout. Hopefully it'll not be too spicy.
3. Found some seville orange marmalade, added about 4-6 oz to a bowl with 1 tablespoon of flour. Added some of the boiling wort to the bowl to melt the marmalade and form a slurry with the flour. Added back to the kettle at flameout.
4. Added a teabag of chai tea last couple minutes of the boil.

I'll keep this updated when i try it in a couple weeks. Cheers!

Edit: Forgot to add, i did a protein rest at 122 degrees for 30 min. before an infusion to raise the temp. to 154 degrees for another 45 minutes.
 

sivdrinks

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Why the flour with the marmalade? How's the Indian coriander different than regular?
 
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BeezBrew

BeezBrew

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Why the flour with the marmalade? How's the Indian coriander different than regular?
Flour adds some haze to the beer, especially if you keg. More aesthetic than anything. Indian coriander is much more pungent and fragrent than coriander you find in the grocery store. Grocery store coriander usually smells stale and very vegetal. Indian coriander is usually oblong and like an oval while normal coriander is more like a sphere.
 

harlond

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I've tasted one after 4 weeks in the bottle. It's going to need some aging. Was my second brew ever, so that's on me. I'll check back in when it's had some more time.
I just finished one that had been in the bottle for four months. The last one I tried had a spicy component, attributable I think to the coriander, that I did not like. That's gone. And with that gone, it tastes great. I didn't have an Allagash White to compare it to, but it was very good. I would make it again. I would age it in the bottle minimum 4 months to let the flavors come together, but I would definitely make it again. Thanks, Beezbrew.
 

MrBinsky

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Just brewed the same recipe as above, with the following changes:

1. Added 1 lb of flaked oats. I'm curious how much the mouthfeel will change.
2. Finally bought some Indian Coriander (wow, what a difference) and added 1 oz. at flameout. Hopefully it'll not be too spicy.
3. Found some seville orange marmalade, added about 4-6 oz to a bowl with 1 tablespoon of flour. Added some of the boiling wort to the bowl to melt the marmalade and form a slurry with the flour. Added back to the kettle at flameout.
4. Added a teabag of chai tea last couple minutes of the boil.

I'll keep this updated when i try it in a couple weeks. Cheers!

Edit: Forgot to add, i did a protein rest at 122 degrees for 30 min. before an infusion to raise the temp. to 154 degrees for another 45 minutes.
Remember how it turned out/have you brewed it again? I know this i pretty old, but I'd be really interested in any changes or improvements to the recipe.
 
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I just brewed this today. Actually flipped the grainbill completely around: 3lb pilsner, 6lb Wheat malt, 1lb Flaked Wheat. LHBS only had flaked red wheat, so I went with that.

This dummy decided it would be better to drink all night last night than to make his starter, so I've got (fingers crossed) perfectly good wort sitting downstairs with no yeast.

The starter is going right now, though, so tomorrow I'll pitch. I can't wait.
 

Sbarnard80

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SWMBO has been bugging me about doing a brew together and allagash is her favorite beer so going to give this a try next weekend. Any other updates from anyone who has tried the recipe?
 
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I think this is a good recipe. I've been watching this thread for two years, I love this style. I listened to a pod cast of the Jamil Show talking about this style. They said that if you don't want to use raw wheat that you could flip the recipe with a 30/70 (two row/wheat) ratio to get the same effect that you get with using raw wheat. I think the addition of oats from brezbrew was a good call. I'm getting ready to brew this up with some small changes to see how it turns out. Was thinking along these lines.

40% two row
40% wheat
20% flaked wheat instead of oats
with the same hop schedule and additions of zest and corriander by brezbrew. I think I'm going to add some ground pepper @ flame out not sure how much yet.

[email protected]

Using white labs 410 wit yeast it's out right now pitching at 68 holding there for 24 hours then bringing it up to 74 @ 2 degrees per day until 74 is reach.


any comments I'd love to hear it

On a side note the soft white wheat he is talking about can be found at a whole foods store and is commonly called wheat berries. The Red Mill brand sells it, if your going to give a shot you might want to grind it up almost into flour then do a 2nd mash with the raw wheat with protein rests before adding it to the main mash. But don't take it from me you should really listen to that pod cast I'll try to dig it up.
 

seangriffinbrewing

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I think this is a good recipe. I've been watching this thread for two years, I love this style. I listened to a pod cast of the Jamil Show talking about this style. They said that if you don't want to use raw wheat that you could flip the recipe with a 30/70 (two row/wheat) ratio to get the same effect that you get with using raw wheat. I think the addition of oats from brezbrew was a good call. I'm getting ready to brew this up with some small changes to see how it turns out. Was thinking along these lines.

40% two row
40% wheat
20% flaked wheat instead of oats
with the same hop schedule and additions of zest and corriander by brezbrew. I think I'm going to add some ground pepper @ flame out not sure how much yet.

[email protected]

Using white labs 410 wit yeast it's out right now pitching at 68 holding there for 24 hours then bringing it up to 74 @ 2 degrees per day until 74 is reach.


any comments I'd love to hear it

On a side note the soft white wheat he is talking about can be found at a whole foods store and is commonly called wheat berries. The Red Mill brand sells it, if your going to give a shot you might want to grind it up almost into flour then do a 2nd mash with the raw wheat with protein rests before adding it to the main mash. But don't take it from me you should really listen to that pod cast I'll try to dig it up.

I've been following this thread a while now.
looking back at it do you prefer flipping the grain bill or using the raw?
...Im looking for the pod cast
Looking forward to making a belgian white,
What do you think of DFH Namaste with a bit of lemon grass?
 
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I like the raw wheat. It gives the beer a great haze and a nice wheat bit almost a tang. But mashing Raw wheat is complicated. Find the Jamil show on pod cast. Has great information about using raw wheat. I grind mine with a coffee grinder but go slow you can burn up the grinder. And lots of rice hulls. Do a step mash one for the wheat and one for the main then add them together aND finisg.
 

Mturner770

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My two cents and recipe for ALL GRAIN

Grain bill never changes basically
30-40%Flaked Wheat(Which is unmalted)
55-65% Quality Two row,Pilsner,whatever your preference.
5%-Oats
Crapload of rice hulls;The stickier your mash tends to normally be the more you will need.I BIAB so i dont.

Bittering hops between 10 and 20 estimated IBUs
If you like more flavor from hops go to high end,if you want spice additions to stand out more go less.

Flavor/Bittering Spice additions;
Starting at 15 min left in boil and all the way to whirlpool you can experiment with countess ways to add spice.

15 min-.75 oz Indian Coriander per 5G
10min-.50 dried citrus peel(Orange,grapefruit,tangerine etc etc)
5min-.50 sweet orange peel,peppercorns,on and on and

I use Wyeast to ferment on low end until summer then low 70'S

All haze is produced by unmalted wheat proteins and a generous amount of yeast in the bottle.Anything else is just shortcuts(flour).

I left out basic brewing info to save space,and really stand by the fact that:
UNMALTED WHEAT MUST MAKE UP 90-95 %OF WHEAT COMPONENT,IN GRAIN BILL IF YOU WANT THAT "TASTE" WE LOVE SO MUCH!!!!!!
:rockin:
 

srob18

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Beer is fermenting away and smells very bready/spicy. Excited to see what it tastes like. I think i will keg it in 3 weeks let it sit another 2 weeks then drink it. Will post a Pic and notes when i can.
 

srob18

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About 3 Days in and my beer has been bubbling away. I used the Wyeast wit strain because my LHBS was out of thw white labs stuff. So far as noted above it smells great. Beer seems to be straw colored and i think after kegging will be nice and hazy.

For graini used:

60% Belgium Pils
25% Belgium White
10% Red Wheat
5% Flaked Wheat

Added Coriander and zested Orange peel with 5 min left in the boil and kept them in there until my wart chiller was done cooling the beer to a reasonable heat.

beer.jpg
 

srob18

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My beer turned out damn good. Best beer i've ever brewed. Will post a picture soon
 

arnobg

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My beer turned out damn good. Best beer i've ever brewed. Will post a picture soon
I was actually browsing this thread yesterday and was going to ask how it turned out so thanks for checking in :mug:

Please do post a picture, do you have any Allagash to compare it to?
 

srob18

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I do not have any Allagash to compare it too other then my memory of it's taste and a picture of one that i drank. I'll post a pic of it this Sunday
 

srob18

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Hope the pic quality turns out well. I think i slightly over-carbed the beer due to my usual under-carbing(i guess that's what i get for over carbing a Belgian strain). Still, this beer rocks and looks to me like the original i had. Tastes great too! Would recommend to people who prefer wit styles.

96f44e05-2513-44b8-b6d3-f18787893d8c.jpg


c562dda9-7a23-4a8d-8294-6f703f1d39ed.jpg
 

arnobg

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Looks good might have to make it soon

I find it interesting everyone is using flaked wheat when in the original post the brewer from the maker of this beer says they used unmalted white wheat. This is not the same thing as flaked wheat, it is plain unmalted wheat that isn't flaked.
 

Horseshoot

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Flaked wheat isn't malted either. The flaking only pre-gelatinizes it. That way one doesn't have to do a cereal mash.
 

srob18

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What makes you think you over carbonated it? It looks great, to me!

Mike
They're just very very carbonated. I would say boarderline gushers. Still, all i care about is how it tastes and the taste is great!
 

srob18

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Looks good might have to make it soon

I find it interesting everyone is using flaked wheat when in the original post the brewer from the maker of this beer says they used unmalted white wheat. This is not the same thing as flaked wheat, it is plain unmalted wheat that isn't flaked.
I used 25% Belgian White Wheat for mine with very little flaked. It turned out great so at least you have that for a reference .

Ratio was 60% Pils 40% Wheat
 

arnobg

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I am going to brew this in a few days and was wondering how much dried bitter orange peel and coriander to use and when? 5 minutes or flameout?
 
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It's is an allagash clone and raw wheat is used per the brewer anything else is just your version of a wit. Cereal mashes are not hard. Grind up with coffee grinder. 121 for 15 min 152 for 20 min bring to low boil for 20 the infuse into main mash and get the main mash up to sac rest. Then normal sparge and boil use the hops from brewing with wheat allagash recipe target ibus 21 use beer smith to get your ratios for the hops. Low spices and orange they are back note's most flavor is yeast driven. If you can get allagash house yeast off bottles use it. Ferm temp is also in brewing with wheat recipe.

They also spin it in a centrafuge to keep the look but most of us don't have that equipment. (Taken out of brewing with wheat book)
 
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By the way your wit looks great!

Hope the pic quality turns out well. I think i slightly over-carbed the beer due to my usual under-carbing(i guess that's what i get for over carbing a Belgian strain). Still, this beer rocks and looks to me like the original i had. Tastes great too! Would recommend to people who prefer wit styles.
 

arnobg

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I have been following this recipe for quite some time and finally brewed my version of it today.

55% Pilsner Malt (Weyermann)
25% Flaked Wheat
15% Pale Wheat (Weyermann)
5% Flaked Oats

75 minute single infusion mash starting at 156F finishing around 153F
75 Minute boil with the following boil additions:

0.75 oz Tettnang 13.6 IBU's @75
0.25 oz Saaz 4.2 IBU's @75
0.25 oz Saaz 1.0 IBU's @15
1 oz Bitter Orange Peel @ 1
1 oz Coriander Crushed @ 1

Chilled to 66F and pitched a 1.0L starter of Wyeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit. Temperature set to 68F for free rise. Will kick it up to 70-72 after a few days.
 
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