Wiring question for people that use elements

[Cashjon]

Hi guys , I'm just a bit confused so I thought I would ask what you guys do. I thought I would install a receptacle right off my panel. In order to have it wires right a 240v rec would require 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground for total of 4 wires. After this rec is installed I was going to run this 4 wire plug from it into my box with my SSR, PID etc. So now I have my wall receptical, a plug plugged into it from my control box. I'm going to install a L6-30R on side of my control box for element plug to plug into. Here is the question, Is this were everyone just runs the 3 wire plug to element or is there another way of using all 4 ? I guess the confusion is going from 4 wires down to 3 , do we just eliminate the Neutral at this point? Any help or a diagram would be greatly appreciated. Oh and not athat it makes a difference but this is for my HLT to heat water. Thank-you so much for any replies,John

 

[stevehaun]

From panel to elements is 3 wires - 2 hots and a ground.

 

[augiedoggy]

The neutral is really only there for 120v devices you might want to run inside or off your panel... its also needed at the breaker or spa panel to properly wire up a GFCI to meet code. My last control panel had it but the one I'm building now only has a 10/3 cord feeding it..

 

[Cashjon]

So I guess I better just ask electrician if it's ok to install a receptical with 3 prongs, 2-hots 1 ground here in Ontario. If I have to use a 4 prong receptical which is 2hots 1 neutral and 1 ground then I guess I will just have to cap off white going to element after I leave controller, Maybe I never stated that clearly enough. Biggest problem with wiring is that I don't know what the code is, and these criminals want $219.00 for a code book in Ontario Canada. Made by CSA.

 

[-CHRIS-]

No, always run a 240/120v outlet, it gives you flexibility in the future. You can buy a 240v/120v plug and only use 3 wires to your panel (hot,hot, ground.)

You are correct, you can drop the neutral if you do not require 120v.


Chris

 

[summerofgeorge]

It's not really capping off the neutral to the element. It just isn't needed. Install the 4 wire outlet and run the 4 wires to your panel (with proper GFCI protection). Most people have some sort of distribution block or bus for the incoming wires inside the panel. If you do this, just run the two hots and ground from the blocks to your L6-30R, usually with the hots through a relay controlled by a switch. There just wouldn't be a neutral wire coming from the block for the element.

 

[augiedoggy]

It's not really capping off the neutral to the element. It just isn't needed. Install the 4 wire outlet and run the 4 wires to your panel (with proper GFCI protection). Most people have some sort of distribution block or bus for the incoming wires inside the panel. If you do this, just run the two hots and ground from the blocks to your L6-30R, usually with the hots through a relay controlled by a switch. There just wouldn't be a neutral wire coming from the block for the element.

then why run it? if he installs the gfci breaker in his main panel where he have the 4 wires present, what would the purpose of the 4th wire be besides some future upgrade if he wanted to run his pumps directly off the control panel? plus I know know one ever mentions this but they do make these pumps for 240v as well...
If you havent bought your wire yet cashjon and your just going with 30a then yeah I would run the 10/3 standard wire which already comes with 3 wires plus a ground wire... if your running 6 awg that 4th wire is an additional cost and can be more of a headche to fish.

 

[summerofgeorge]

then why run it? if he installs the gfci breaker in his main panel where he have the 4 wires present, what would the purpose of the 4th wire be besides some future upgrade if he wanted to run his pumps directly off the control panel? plus I know know one ever mentions this but they do make these pumps for 240v as well...
If you havent bought your wire yet cashjon and your just going with 30a then yeah I would run the 10/3 standard wire which already comes with 3 wires plus a ground wire... if your running 6 awg that 4th wire is an additional cost and can be more of a headche to fish.

If everything will be run on 240V, you certainly don't have to run 4 wires. I read the question as the OP was already planning on running 4 wires to the control panel and wanted to know how to go from the 4 coming in to the 3 going to the element.

If it's going to be 10 AWG, I would personally just run 4 wires now even if they aren't needed. It really depends on what OP is planning with everything else. 240V pumps are available but I like the flexibility of 120V. There have been multiple times where I've needed to plug my pump into a standard wall outlet.

I haven't priced it out but is it really that much of a difference between using 10/4 and 10/3?

 

[augiedoggy]

If everything will be run on 240V, you certainly don't have to run 4 wires. I read the question as the OP was already planning on running 4 wires to the control panel and wanted to know how to go from the 4 coming in to the 3 going to the element.

If it's going to be 10 AWG, I would personally just run 4 wires now even if they aren't needed. It really depends on what OP is planning with everything else. 240V pumps are available but I like the flexibility of 120V. There have been multiple times where I've needed to plug my pump into a standard wall outlet.

I haven't priced it out but is it really that much of a difference between using 10/4 and 10/3?

Did you read the last sentence in my comment? 10/3 solid core romex wire is actually 3 insulated wires plus a ground (4 conductors) Its what I used myself) I agree with you and suggested the same thing... Its if he steps up to a 50a service that I feel it may not be worth it for his application.

 

[summerofgeorge]

Oh, I read it. Apparently I just can't read very well. I think based on your initial comment about why bother running 4 wires, I assumed you were suggesting running 3 vs 4. So yeah, we're saying the same thing.

It was early...I was reading it on my phone...:smack:

 

[Cashjon]

Thank-you for your replies, I may decide to run a pump later on(right now it's just gravity fed) again, thank-you

 

[BrunDog]

When running new line: always run /3 and always pick a larger size than you think you need now. Yes it costs more but room for growth is always a good thing.