Wiring My GFCI Breaker & Outlet -> Plan of attack

[jdlev]

Please let me know if anything needs to be corrected in this plan of attack.

Wiring the Breaker:

Here's the current breaker. I cut the main power to the subpanel, and pulled the breaker. Since it's a standard breaker, it only has 2 connections for the 2 120v connections (the red & black power wires).

I popped in my GFCI breaker that I pulled from the spa breaker I found at home depot for $49.

You'll note that is also has a neutral wire coming from it. I'm assuming that all I have to do is connect the two 120 lines (the black and red wire from the original breaker) here and here(see image below), and run the neutral wire to the neutral circuit panel in the wall panel.

Wiring the Outlet:

The wire that is run to the 240 outlet has 4 wires: the 2 120v wires (red & black), the ground (bare), and the neutral wire.

Here's the image of the outlet. It only has 3 connectors, so I assume the neutral wire & ground wire are supposed to both run to the ground screw on the outlet?

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Your plan for your GFCI breaker is correct. The white wire from the breaker goes to the neutral bus.

The white wire in your 4-wire cable will not be used. Just cap it off. The bare wire goes to the ground screw, and the black and red go to the other two. Doesn't matter which is which.

 

[jsguitar]

I assume you're wanting to use a controller? If your doing that, I assume you're going to have some 120 circuits too and would then need a four prong receptacle that includes neutral. If not, just ignore what I just said.

 

[jdlev]

I'm not sure what you mean by a controller? (electric noob here )

I plan on running the outlet to one of Kal's electric brew control boxes (well...if i can ever get it built!)

 

[jsguitar]

Yeah, for that you need a four wire receptacle to plug the controller into. Something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-071-00278-000-Flush-Mount-Receptacle/dp/B00009W3A9/ref=pd_cp_hi_2

I'm a noob too but I just went through this and figured that was what you were trying to do. You can use the receptical you have for one of the heater elements in the control box. I used two of those for my elements.

Edit: that's if your using thirty amps as in Kal's build. He has that part in his instructions somewhere.

 

[jdlev]

What's the difference between the 4 plug and 3 plug? And why do I need to upgrade this one...I already got the wall mount/recepticle/cover and everything...I'd really prefer to use the one I have unless there's a good reason not to?

 

[jsguitar]

The three prong receptacle does not provide a neutral to the control box. You have to have this for the 120v parts of the system. The 120v stuff needs hot, neutral, and ground. That outlet only provides the two hots and a ground. You can plug an element directly into it, but since you're building a control box that also utilizes 120v (pumps and switches et.) you have to have the neutral too.

 

[jdlev]

fooey I was hoping I could make some good progress on the project...well, at least I got the GFCI installed...tested it, and it's pumping amps...so that's good I guess

 

[jsguitar]

Hey, I wasted all kinds of money and made a lot of mistakes. That's not too expensive of an error. You're doing alright. You got your GFCI figured out for cheap, so your ahead on that.

Like I said, you can use that outlet for an element too if you want to save money. Those flanged receptacles in Kal's build are very expensive.

 

[devilbrewer75]

I agree, expect to spend a lot more than you think. You will make a lot of little mistakes which will waste money unless your planning is perfect. Mine cost about double what I thought it would but i'm so happy now that it's done.

 

[kappclark]

fooey I was hoping I could make some good progress on the project...well, at least I got the GFCI installed...tested it, and it's pumping amps...so that's good I guess

So instead of spending $90 on a 30Amp GFI breaker, you bought the spa panel, and salvaged the breaker ?

 

[emjay]

Those flanged receptacles in Kal's build are very expensive.

Tell me about it! I just got some basic 15-5 flanged male receptacles for a fermentation project and it set me back almost $15 a piece.

I wanted to get some female receptacles as well, but for that price?? Wall plates are going on the enclosure!

 

[jdlev]

So instead of spending $90 on a 30Amp GFI breaker, you bought the spa panel, and salvaged the breaker ?

Yup...and got a free box out of it

 

[Walker]

Yup...and got a free box out of it

note that this only works if your home's electrical panel is the EXACT same manufacturer and style of breaker as the spa panel.

circuit breakers are not manufactured to any sort of standard form factor. A Siemens breaker will not fit into a GE panel, for example. To make it worse, a breaker manufacturer will often offer multiple styles, and those won't even be interchangeable.

 

[EarthBound]

Just FYI, I have a Square D GFCI breaker that fits into my Siemens panel.

 

[Walker]

cool. Glad it worked. My message was just a warning that there is no guarantee that a breaker from manufacturer X will fit into a panel from manufacturer Y.

 

[jdlev]

I WANT GUARANTEES NOT BROKEN PROMISES!!!!!

 

[EarthBound]

cool. Glad it worked. My message was just a warning that there is no guarantee that a breaker from manufacturer X will fit into a panel from manufacturer Y.

Yep. I was pleasantly surprised when I matched up my Siemens breaker with the Square D one and saw that it matched.

 

[kappclark]

Yep. I was pleasantly surprised when I matched up my Siemens breaker with the Square D one and saw that it matched.

So - good to know ... I hadn't considered that ...I remember in PA having to get a special breaker for the panel we had just had installed...

OK - I have an ITE box (100 amp) , should I contact HD for compatibility ? I have an extra 220 breaker in panel - maybe take it down ?

If a no-go, I can just use the box as a sub panel I suppose...but wouldn't the breaker in the panel have to be equal or greater than the breaker in the spa panel ?? IOW - I need a 50 Amp 220 in the main panel to run the spa panel w/50A GFI ?? I would wind up getting another 220 breaker, but I still might save a few bucks..

Just trying to make it simple, but safe above all..

 

[jsguitar]

jdlev, I'm not sure what you've done yet regarding the four wire outlet but if you've already got a box that fits that particular type of outlet, you could get this:

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-2710-Receptacle-Industrial-Grounding/dp/B00002NATX/ref=pd_sim_dbs_misc_1


It looks like its the same size and design but with the neutral connection.

 

[johnodon]

Can anyone tell me what type of breaker is in the Spa Panel form HD? Is it the push type (straight in) or the type that has the feet that you angle in and push down the other side?

TIA!

John

 

[P-J]

This is the GE SPA Panel from HomeDepot.

This is what it looks like inside:

Hope this helps.

P-J

 

[johnodon]

Thanks P-J.

So, if I am seeing that correctly, the breaker is the type that seat one end and then push down on the other...not the straight "push in" type.

If that is the case, I'm thinking that this will work in my Siemens sub-panel. Sure beats paying $95 for a breaker.

John

 

[P-J]

John,

If it doesn't fit your panel, there is another way to handle it. Just setup the Spa Panel as a second sub panel next to the Siemens panel. The wiring would be extremely easy for you to accomplish as well.

P-J

 

[bullywee]

That spa panel CB should work in a Siemens panel, It worked for me and saved me close to $60 - thanks PJ!

I discovered late into my electric brewery project that my control box (4prong) would not fit in a 3 prong outlet....wonder why? A quick and slightly frenzied call to PJ took care of it! A CB from a spa panel, a length of 4/10 wire, a 4 prong recpticale and some workshop wall panels removed equaled problem solved.

 

[johnodon]

that spa panel cb should work in a siemens panel, it worked for me and saved me close to $60 - thanks pj!

I discovered late into my electric brewery project that my control box (4prong) would not fit in a 3 prong outlet....wonder why? A quick and slightly frenzied call to pj took care of it! A cb from a spa panel, a length of 4/10 wire, a 4 prong recpticale and some workshop wall panels removed equaled problem solved.

great news!!!

 

[johnodon]

John,

If it doesn't fit your panel, there is another way to handle it. Just setup the Spa Panel as a second sub panel next to the Siemens panel. The wiring would be extremely easy for you to accomplish as well.

P-J

Thanks for the info P-J.

2 Questions...

1. If I need to do what you said (which it looks like I may not need to), I assume I would need to put a plain jane 50a 2 pole breaker in the sub-panel and piggyback off of that to the spa panel?

2. Since the CB in the spa panel is 50a, any need to upgrade the wiring for the main power into the control box (right now 10ga/30a)? I'm going to assume "no" since I would never pull more than 30a. Is that dangerous thinking?

Thanks again...and again...and again!!!

John

 

[P-J]

Circuit breakers are there to protect the wire. I would place a 30A breaker in the sub panel then feed the spa panel from it. THe GFCI in the spa panel would only be used for GFCI protection. If you do place the GFCI breaker in the sub panel, then the wiring to the sub from the mains panel must be able to handle 50A. Additionally, the wiring from the sub panel to your brewery outlet must also be rated for 50A - including the outlet and the cable to your brew controller. You would also need to place breakers in your controller to protect your circuits.

The easiest solution is the first. Place a 30A 240V breaker in the sub and go from there to the spa panel. The spa panel then gets wired like this:

HTH...

Thanks for the info P-J.

2 Questions...

1. If I need to do what you said (which it looks like I may not need to), I assume I would need to put a plain jane 50a 2 pole breaker in the sub-panel and piggyback off of that to the spa panel?

2. Since the CB in the spa panel is 50a, any need to upgrade the wiring for the main power into the control box (right now 10ga/30a)? I'm going to assume "no" since I would never pull more than 30a. Is that dangerous thinking?

Thanks again...and again...and again!!!

John

 

[johnodon]

Circuit breakers are there to protect the wire. I would place a 30A breaker in the sub panel then feed the spa panel from it. THe GFCI in the spa panel would only be used for GFCI protection. If you do place the GFCI breaker in the sub panel, then the wiring to the sub from the mains panel must be able to handle 50A. Additionally, the wiring from the sub panel to your brewery outlet must also be rated for 50A - including the outlet and the cable to your brew controller. You would also need to place breakers in your controller to protect your circuits.

The easiest solution is the first. Place a 30A 240V breaker in the sub and go from there to the spa panel. The spa panel then gets wired like this:

HTH...

Going to take your advice and do it the way you suggested.

On a side note...I thought I remember reading that soneone mounted the 4 wire receptacle directly into the spa panel. Do you see an issues with this?

TIA!

John

 

[P-J]

Going to take your advice and do it the way you suggested.

On a side note...I thought I remember reading that soneone mounted the 4 wire receptacle directly into the spa panel. Do you see an issues with this?

John,

That is exactly what I would do. I'd just punch a hole in the panel to fit and mount it. You would then be good to go.

P-J