Wild YEAST Appeared!

[Pith]

You can do either, if it stops bubbling, put it in the fridge to settle, then decant the starter and pitch the yeast. You can also pitch it while it's fermenting, it's really up to you.

So I just get rid of the liquid and use the sediment at the bottom? I tried to get rid of the cake sediment (stupid stupid stupid idea to put cake in), but there's still a bit there. What would be the best way to separate the cake sediment from the settled yeast? Or should I just use it all?

EDIT: Actually, not sure if it is even cake sediment. The colour of it is similar to the colour of the stuff under this guy's wild starter:
http://beerandcoding.com/where-the-wild-yeasts-are/

Decanted it into two containers. Here's a photo of the sediment container after having been in the fridge for a little while. Putting it all back in the fridge now to check on in the morning.

 

[statseeker]

Just use it all. The less you transfer and pour and filter and move things around, the less likely an infection will be. Quite frankly I'm shocked that it hasnt gone stinky or moldy yet. I say you take this starter and use it soon. Small batch. Do a gallon. I wouldnt want to do a full five gallon beer until I knew how this wild yeast/bacteria mixture behaves in a maltose rich environment (i.e. a malt wort), which it hasnt gotten to do yet if I've followed the sequence of events closely enough. Whip up a light extract wort and lightly hop it with a neutral bittering hop like Perle (about half an ounce) and put it in a closet for 3 months. At least then you'll know how it behaves.

 

[Pith]

You seem to be paying wonderful attention to the processes I've gone through, and I thank you dearly for babying me through my naivete, but somehow you keep missing when I've said how
"I'm NOT interested in making beer".
At this point in time, having tried and failed to like it (admittedly I only have access to commercial Australian brands), it will be a while if ever before I make beer, and only ever will if I'm given access to something I like, perhaps more expensive and European or perhaps a lovingly created homebrew that somehow bypasses everything I despise about what I've tried so far.

I might make a cider, a wine, or a mead.

Anyway, my house/equipment must be far less prone to infections, because I've never been a sanitation freak and have never had any problems. The most I do (and I always do this) is put tap water in it and shake it vigourously horizontally and vertically, then tip out and repeat. If I'm using a jug for the first time it's been free of what was in it (milk, juice, mineral water), I put a splash of bleach in, shake like buggery, then tip back into the bottle and rinse vigorously three or four times.

Anyway, I washed the yeast, discarded the liquid, then made a solution of 500g unrefined palm sugar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaggery) and nearly 3L of water, dissolved it all together and pitched the washed yeast into it with some boiled baker's yeast for nutrient. Put the lid on and left it outside in our broken fridge. Might end up with some kind of "Wild Jaggery Wine".

 

[suprchunk]

"I'm NOT interested in making beer".

Stop calling it BREW if you want to avoid confusion. I had to look hard for the ONE post you actually said you didn't want to make beer, and it was hidden even in that. People do make other beverages on here, but they usually make it a LOT CLEARER than you did. Not to mention this is mainly a site for homebrewing beer. Mainly.

 

[Pith]

Stop calling it BREW if you want to avoid confusion. I had to look hard for the ONE post you actually said you didn't want to make beer, and it was hidden even in that. People do make other beverages on here, but they usually make it a LOT CLEARER than you did. Not to mention this is mainly a site for homebrewing beer. Mainly.

Post #3 says quite plainly "I'm planning on making a mead or cider or something in between from this" (which is kind of vaguely backed up by the fact that I used apple and honey to make my yeastcapture solution rather than DME, but this isn't really big enough a fact to add to my argument) and post #8 hints at my ignorance of DME/beer/whatever by describing how I would be unable to tell a good beer flavour from a bad beer flavour due to my deliberate lack of experience.

Admittedly statseeker had not arrived at this point I don't think, but in reply to his post I said quite plainly, at the beginning of the final paragraph of post #28: "At this point in time, I cannot see myself ever making or drinking "beer"", in a fashion that would not be hidden to anyone who read the entire post, which I assumed he had because he says he is "follow[ing] the sequence of events closely", which to do you would have to have READ EACH POST WITH ANY DEGREE OF CARE.

I will, however, concede that "brew" may have been a confusing term. I'll give you that one. I won't concede that I didn't make it clear that I was not interested in beer.

Pro-tip: Always RDW, but only try to analyse threads BEFORE you HAHB.

Thanks for posting this btw, so someone else doesn't have to.

 

[suprchunk]

No problem.

 

[Pith]

Update:

Well, I left the jug open with the palm sugar, water and yeast for a day until it started bubbling, and now it's bubbling quite vigorously indeed. Since it's wild yeast, I assume that my must is fairly similar to what it would have been like in the countries where palm wine was made since so long ago.

Since the start, it's tasted like little more than sugary water, but it's smelled simultaneously like wood, vegetables, and salt, presumably from the massive buildup of impurities from the sugar that have sunk to the bottom (wikipedia suggest bagasse fibres, proteins, and wood ash) I feel kinda sorry for the natives of small islands who had to make this stuff in order to get drunk. It's really not that splendid. Yet. I don't know if the yeast will feed on anything but the sucrose and inverts that make up the majority of the palm sugar.

I've read about people adding it to their boil for a beer, and indeed the best way to get the unique flavours of palm sugar may be to boil it with the rest of the wort. In fact, palm sugar is used in cooking foods, so the cooking process must be important.

I assume that since the ratio of water to fermentables is something like 5:1, that the yeast will still be rearing to go after finishing off the sugars.

See you in a few weeks unless something interesting happens!

 

[Pith]

You know what guys? I'm a total ass. You can quote me on that.
http://www.brewery.org/library/LmbicJL0696.html#Enteric

It's probably just bacteria that made the foam on my original culture after all and I'm getting an acidic, non-alcoholic fermentation. I only left the culture outside for like 5 days. Apparently it won't start collecting yeast unless it's left out for 2 weeks. Balls. Oh well. Might be interesting to taste after it's pissed too much acid for it to live in, especially considering that enteric bacteria imparts a "celery, parship or mushroom" flavour and the wort smelled like vegetab.les before I added anything anyway. Maybe I should call it the "Grocery-store Bacteria Wine".

 

[statseeker]

If at first you dont succeed...yada yada yada.

 

[Pith]

Speaking of which, it erupted half its contents while I was out at a dinner party. If at first you don't succeed indeed.

 

[Pith]

It's been a week since it started and has bubbled vigourously since. Still smells very vegetably and savoury. Before degassing each day it smells a bit eggy, but nice after degassing. Had a slight taste and it's not at all unpleasant, but again, nothing to write home about. Tastes slightly alcoholic, so there's definitely yeast there (also remembered that there were indeed small white cultures growing on the surface of a wild starter I added, so definitely yeast in there).

Tastes as though it would be a uniquelly interesting addition to a beer; I definitely recommend using jaggery in a brew if you're feeling adventurous.

Will update again later.

 

[Pith]

Whelp, it's been about 12 days since pitching, and the must seems to have mostly settled down. It's still definitely doing something though; as I type this I just saw a single big (3mm?) bubble attached to a chunk of sediment rise quickly to the top, pop, and the sediment slowly glided back down. Cool.

So, just to recap, the info I can find suggests that unrefined palm sugar (jaggery) consists of about 50% sucrose (but with longer chains), 20% invert sugars (sucrose that has been inverted to glucose and fructose), water up to 20%, and the remainder consists of wood ash, proteins and bagasse fibres.

The liquid in the top half of the bottle is beginning to clear and is a deep "dirty orange" colour, and the bottom half of the liquid is slightly murkier and lighter in colour. At the bottom is the most interesting sediment. At the very bottom of the bottle is is a sediment that looks like sedimentary rock, light brown with horizontal layers of white all through it, rather like this but less precise: http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVwiV424AkHykGG5JZY4YC5Iv7-nMLbpJm4sxNfN0dMHMrpIvPtA

On top of this layer is a milky/pearlescent white layer, which upon shaking does not disturb as readily as the aforementioned layer, and requires more vigourous shaking. Do you think that would be the yeast layer? On top of that is a very thin layer of light brown, followed by a very thin layer of yellowish. These top two are barely noticeable unless you're looking carefully. The top one might even just be light filtering through.

At this moment I don't have the means to photograph close up, but when I do I will.

I just tasted the top and it's not sweet; actually rather insipid, which is predictable since there's nothing in it other than water, yeast and unrefeind sugar. Not offensive, but not "pleasant" by any means. Then I shook it up and degassed, and it tastes a lot different; the sediment really gives it a kick, and it actually smelled more... alcoholic, which can't be right, since alcohol doesnt sink. It's unlike anything I've ever tasted before and probably not suitable as a "beverage", but if nothing else I imagine the sediment would probably be very interesting in a stirfry, since jaggery itself is used in ethnic cooking anyway.

The only thing I can think of to do (after a few days of further clearing) is to
1. shake, settle for a while, and rack off the lightbrown/white layered sediment
2. freeze/refridgerate the sediment for further culinary use
3. add more of the adjunct to the liquid/yeast
4. wait until clearing
5. repeat all steps.

I might use the liquid in novelty Bloody Mary when we're all too drunk to get upset about it, and use the unfermentables at the bottom in a sauce. I'll also reserve judgment until it's cleared as much as it will.

 

[Pith]

Actually, I think I remember the unsavoury flavour being in the starter as well, which means it's the organisms and not the adjuncts.

Dumped.

 

[statseeker]

That sucks. I'm sorry to hear the project hasnt come along further. Try try again?

 

[Pith]

Yeah. I'm making a sourdough starter (bubbles and hooch are forming, so it's working) and I've also left a cup of sweet stuff outside (added lemon; acid discourages mould, right?) but I'm not as hopeful about the results, and can't really think of anything I'd do with it.

I'll probably wait two weeks this time like the sticky suggests so hopefully there's more saccharomyces in it than other things.