Wild Brews vs. American Sour Beers

[worlddivides]

I've read both of these books cover-to-cover (American Sour Beers first, then Wild Brews second) and one thing that really struck me is how they contradict each other on quite a few points. Now, I understand that beer-souring organisms such as lactic acid producing bacteria and wild yeasts like Brettanomyces are not studied that well because they don't have the major financing of big breweries like InBev (which has helped in extensive research into Saccharomyces), but I wondered why these two books contradict each other on so many points.

I do find them to both be extremely useful, Wild Brews in its mostly anecdotal non-scientific traditional information from the myriad of brewers in Belgium (granted, it does have some scientific research in it, but it leans a lot more heavily towards the traditional side -- and I have to say that, even without any scientific basis, following the traditional methods is more likely to get you a traditional brew) and American Sour Beers in its more scientific-based research and discussion of modern breweries and their techniques, etc.

They are both excellent books and I plan to reread both of them multiple times from here on out, but I'm just wondering if any of you guys noticed the same thing, and if so, what you think about it.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I have the Wild Brews book or the Belgian Trilogy; Wild Brews, Brew Like A Monk and Farmhouse Ales.

You are right they lack the depth in technical practices and is based more on history and tradition.

I might have to get my hands on American Sours.

 

[CA_Mouse]

Is the 10 years between them the cause of the differences? Brewing science has made some very huge jumps since 2005. Take for instance, at least one strain of Brettanomyces has been found to be a strain of Saccromyces and recently lager yeast and ale yeast have been found to have a common ancestor genetically.

 

[tagz]

Why don't you give us some idea of the specific contradictions you noticed?

 

[worlddivides]

I can't recall anything specific off the top of my head, but I do remember a lot of the information about Brettanomyces being contrary between the two books. Plus, a lot of the advice brewers gave seemed to go against what the American Sour Beers book had as standard practices.

I guess I wasn't too surprised because the very title of the book, "Wild Brews: Beer Beyond the Influence of Brewer's Yeast" was contradicted by information on the inside that said that 60-80% of the fermentation was performed by brewer's yeast (Saccharomyces). And if up to 80% of the fermentation is done by brewer's yeast, you can hardly say it's "beyond the influence of brewer's yeast." When I first read the title, I thought "Is he talking about 100% Brett fermentations?" but the author seemed pretty amazed that those exist (I imagine they probably had only just started to be carried out when the book was published).

I'd have to reread Wild Brews to pick up on some of the specific contradictions. There were a lot that I thought "Wait a second... But American Sour Beers said..." but I didn't catalog them in my memory.

I do have to clarify again, I suppose, that I think they are both great books, and it's possible that the "traditional methods" in Wild Brews do work to get a great beer, but not for the reasons the brewers think (and thus the reason the book says).

Is the 10 years between them the cause of the differences? Brewing science has made some very huge jumps since 2005. Take for instance, at least one strain of Brettanomyces has been found to be a strain of Saccromyces and recently lager yeast and ale yeast have been found to have a common ancestor genetically.

That's a good point. Wild Brews came out in 2005, while American Sour Beers came out in 2014.

 

[Schlenkerla]

This website is pretty awesome....

http://www.milkthefunk.com/

 

[Sourz4life]

Yea for all things wild yeast/brett/pedio I refer to milk the funk. Alot of good info that has been tested by many. I know this isn't related to the comment about the differences in the books, just a source for your info. Also Dr Lambic has some good info as well.

 

[bucketnative]

I guess I wasn't too surprised because the very title of the book, "Wild Brews: Beer Beyond the Influence of Brewer's Yeast" was contradicted by information on the inside that said that 60-80% of the fermentation was performed by brewer's yeast (Saccharomyces). And if up to 80% of the fermentation is done by brewer's yeast, you can hardly say it's "beyond the influence of brewer's yeast."

I would say that not all Saccharomyces can be called "brewer's yeast". Saccharomyces is the genus, some strains of which, specifically of the cerevisiae, pastorianus, and carlsbergensis species, have been selected for controlled brewing of beer (brewer's yeast). There are certainly wild strains of Saccharomyces that will ferment beer.

I liken it to, "A square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square."

 

[worlddivides]

This website is pretty awesome....

http://www.milkthefunk.com/

Yeah, that website is RIDICULOUSLY helpful. Even though it's basically a wikipedia type site, it seems to be extremely accurate. I've found more info about certain subjects there than I have anywhere else.

I would say that not all Saccharomyces can be called "brewer's yeast". Saccharomyces is the genus, some strains of which, specifically of the cerevisiae, pastorianus, and carlsbergensis species, have been selected for controlled brewing of beer (brewer's yeast). There are certainly wild strains of Saccharomyces that will ferment beer.

I liken it to, "A square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square."

Right, technically not all strains of Saccharomyces are "brewer's yeast" and in studies of spontaneously fermented beers, in particularly lambics, there were oftentimes a large range of Saccharomyces strains present, but "brewer's yeast" was always present to some degree or another. I remember reading an article (that was posted in this forum, I think) that was surprising because it found present in all Belgian spontaneously fermented beers that they tested: Saccharomyces pastorianus, which is lager yeast. Not sure why that was in the air around the breweries, though.

 

[mitchard]

Yeah, that website is RIDICULOUSLY helpful. Even though it's basically a wikipedia type site, it seems to be extremely accurate. I've found more info about certain subjects there than I have anywhere else.

If you aren't on there already, check out the Facebook group(s). Seems like there is something new to learn every day around there.

 

[CA_Mouse]

If you aren't on there already, check out the Facebook group(s). Seems like there is something new to learn every day around there.

Can't agree more... I've been getting something new every day since I joined the group! :rockin: