why use a pump...

[Redpappy]

Right now I have a basic system. Kettle, bag, and flame. I’m trying to find more info on the purpose of pumps for BIAB and having no luck. Might be the process, but I see positive and negative sides for recirculating. In which if I recirculate I would do whirl pool ( since I have the port).But I'm not really sure on why i want to recirculate. Pleas help me out on this one.... My set up is simple(but changing, change will be on the latter) I have a 6500 BTU burner(Northstar 2.0).
Looking into what I plan on doing. I plan on doing EBIAB. with a 5500 watt element. with the cube2e Controller. My kettle is a spike custom kettle with the ports for recirculation as well as whirl pooling. I am also having a port put in for the steam slayer .

I do like simplicity. I entertain for myself, not others or competitions. So i'm not sure if i really need a pump for circulation and whirl pooling or not... I do use a pump for my Chiller.

I'm inquiring the experience minds, as well as inexperienced... I am looking for options/opnions.

this is where i am in my stage... I will be sending my kettle to Spike brewing to add another port for the Steam slayer. Steam slayer and 5500 watt element, (which I just ordered)l. I have a call in to an electrician to wire in my 30 amp GFI circuit. (if he does'nt want to do it, I will). I will have the basics covers, now I am looking for future progressions.

I am building a brew house in my basement(man cave)no entraining aspects, concrete walls..

I have a brew stand now, but thinking I might redesign it for the basement and build another one, of course more measurements will need to be taken.. If a pump would be beneficial, than I will need know to inocoprate in the new stand. which is my dilemma,not sure if it will be in my needs(basically, i love simplecities.)

Pump purposes would be for while pool as well as circulation.... I have a port on the bottom as we'll as top. (as of right now they are plugged.) (buy once, cry one concept)

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I do BIAB. I have a chugger. I use it for whirlpool hopping for NEIPAs, etc., and for circulating/whirlpool while chilling with my Jaded Hydra. I do not recirculate during the mash. My pump is screwed to a 2x6, and just sits on the floor. Easy peasy, no muss no fuss. I also use it to fill my fermenters.

 

[Redpappy]

I do BIAB. I have a chugger. I use it for whirlpool hopping for NEIPAs, etc., and for circulating/whirlpool while chilling with my Jaded Hydra. I do not recirculate during the mash. My pump is screwed to a 2x6, and just sits on the floor. Easy peasy, no muss no fuss. I also use it to fill my fermenters.

Do you whirlpools Ales? I should of included what i do. sorry........I Do mainly ales, every once in a while i do stouts and red ales...

for instance, so far on gas, on my ales and stouts i have been hitting target well close
to target + or - 5. buttt with the extra port, i'm wondering if it would be worth buying a pump or not.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Looking to complicate your brew day? We can definitely help with that. My system uses 2 pumps.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Do you whirlpools Ales? I should of included what i do.

I do while chilling most of the time, so I don't have to stir. I was lazy last time and did not bother, but chilling took an extra five minutes. Whirlpooling during the chilling helps gather the trub and speed the cooling process. For NEIPAs and wet-hopped beers, I will recirculate back through the hop spider during the hopstand/hop whirlpool.

I think pumps are nifty. I also use mine for cleaning out my draft lines, so there's that. If I had to start over, my order of purchases would be: 15g kettle, quality burner/electric element, Jaded Hydra, temperature controlled fermentation, kegging setup, then a pump.

 

[str1p3s]

My main reason for getting a pump was so I could stop trying to lift and dump anywhere from 5-10 gallons of water/wort. Whirlpooling while chilling seems to speed up the process as well.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Whirlpooling serves more purpose that agitating a hopstand. As noted, it also speeds up chilling and puts trub into a cone in the middle of the kettle. If you draw from the side, it can prevent some of that from getting into your fermenter.

As far as recirculating BIAB, the value is primarily twofold:
1) It facilitates step mashing when used in conjunction with an electric brewing rig
2) If you use a basket instead of a bag, (or a bag in some sort of basket that's not necessarily mesh), and you don't squeeze/press, you can end up with a more clear wort in your boil.

If you're going to recirculate, you'll want some method to maintain your temps (and ramp if you want to step mash). In general, electric solutions are easier for this.

The value of both of those is up for debate. Some people say you don't need step mashes with today's highly modified grains, but others say it makes a difference. I do know that a friend (who is a pro brewer) poured a porter for me that had the most amazing head retention. I asked him how it got that and he said "protein rest". I haven't tried it yet, but I'm just getting a rig up and running that will make step mashes easier, so I'll let you know.

Clear wort is is a bone of contention around here. Brulosophy says clear wort into the kettle and fermenter does not matter. I haven't done any double blind studies, but when I went from a mash tun with a bazooka filter where I did a vorlauf and ran clear wort into the kettle, my IPAs had better flavor and "pop" than they do now using a brew bag. The difference in the clarity of the wort is stark. There's zero difference in clarity in the final product. You can run wort as murky as hell into your boil (and even the fermenter) and still get absolutely clear beer.

So my current brewing rig changes are geared towards the following:

Electric - so I can brew indoors and have better control...especially for step mashing.
Step mashes - I want to experiment with them. I'm a believer in the value of a protein rest.
Clear wort - It may or may not matter, but I want clear wort going into my boil.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Looking to complicate your brew day? We can definitely help with that. My system uses 2 pumps.

Lol good one, I think I will always be a “no pump” guy, for the reason above

 

[fun4stuff]

Lol good one, I think I will always be a “no pump” guy, for the reason above

Me too! K.I.S.S. No need to control mash temp with BIAB when conversion happens so quickly with minimal to no temp drop in those 15 mins. Step mashes no longer needed nowadays. There are multiple Factors affecting head retention as well as clarity. I get crystal clear beer with good head retention (as do many others) without a protein rest or whirlpooling. Although, if i were going to get aNother pump (for the fun of it) , i get one to whirlpool for hops!

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Yep - for some people, KISS is the way to go. Others aren't happy unless they have a system that mimics what the pros do. Many others fall somewhere in between. Some have limited budgets, some spend 10's of thousands (or more). Some like to tinker, DIY, and are constantly changing just because it's fun (lots of engineers in brewing, for some reason). Some never vary from the first rig they brewed on. Some simply want beer that tastes good. Some want world class beer. Some people taste and feel differences in beer that others are oblivious to (diacetyl, for example...some people are completely blind to it, others can detect extremely minute presence).

Of all those different types of home brewers, most people are either sure that what they do is best (for whatever reasons they cite) and others are still searching for their best fit (or still tinkering because it's fun). Don't assume that what's right for someone else is what's best for you. No matter what rig you end up with, there will be people here telling you it's too complicated, too basic, limited in capability, etc.

Do what fits your needs, wants and taste but do understand that none of this is absolute. What's "good enough" for one person isn't quite what another is looking for. Whether or not any particular rig, process, recipe etc is inherently limited or capable for brewing world class beer is subjective. There's no objective measure for great beer.

I will say this: brew with something simple to start. If it meets your needs, you're done and life is simple, easy, and relatively cheap. BIAB is wildly popular for a reason. If you find things lacking, taste other people's beer. If you find someone who's beer is consistently better than yours, pick their brain. Share you recipes with them for feedback. Brew with them and/or have them brew with you. Brew the same recipe as they brewed...is yours as good? If not, why? I learned a lot joining a homebrew club, sharing my beers with members and tasting theirs.

In my years brewing I've learned a lot by doing the above. I want to brew beer that's not just as good as the stuff on the shelf...I want to brew beer that's as good as the best stuff I've had (well over 3000 different craft and import beers).

 

[LittleRiver]

If I had a need to do a lot of step mashing I would consider an electric rig with a re-circulation pump. But I have not found that need. All the benefits I'm getting from keeping my rig simple outweigh any possible improvements I could get from an automated re-circulating rig.

My take on the clear wort thing is that it's largely a subjective/psychological difference. In the end the beer comes out clear. Why complicate a simple rig/process to get clearer wort if it's already going to produce clear beer?

I see a lot of posts where people say "upgrade" when talking about adding a wort re-circulation pump. I see it as a downgrade.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

If I had a need to do a lot of step mashing I would consider an electric rig with a re-circulation pump. But I have not found that need. All the benefits I'm getting from keeping my rig simple outweigh any possible improvements I could get from an automated re-circulating rig.

My take on the clear wort thing is that it's largely a subjective/psychological difference. In the end the beer comes out clear. Why complicate a simple rig/process to get clearer wort if it's already going to produce clear beer?

I see a lot of posts where people say "upgrade" when talking about adding a wort re-circulation pump. I see it as a downgrade.

I'm not claiming that there is, for sure, a difference, but the things in wort that make it not clear could impact flavor without impacting clarity.

 

[bleme]

I brewed over at a friends house a couple weeks ago. He has a 2-tier e-keggle setup and recirculates his mash through a RIMS tube to keep temp dialed precisely.

He laughed when I showed up with a sleeping bag. He was kind of mind-boggled when I mashed in, set my kettle in the bag, and sat down to relax for an hour. He wasn't laughing when I finished a full hour before him (with better efficiency!).

 

[fun4stuff]

If I had a need to do a lot of step mashing I would consider an electric rig with a re-circulation pump. But I have not found that need. All the benefits I'm getting from keeping my rig simple outweigh any possible improvements I could get from an automated re-circulating rig.

My take on the clear wort thing is that it's largely a subjective/psychological difference. In the end the beer comes out clear. Why complicate a simple rig/process to get clearer wort if it's already going to produce clear beer?

I see a lot of posts where people say "upgrade" when talking about adding a wort re-circulation pump. I see it as a downgrade.

There is a psychological tendency to jump on the bandwagon that if something is more complicated or has sexy extra steps it somehow always makes things better. A lot of things the pros do, don’t apply to the homebrew scale and don’t make a detectable difference in taste for us.

I think BIAB has become so popular because it’s a simpler and faster way of all grain brewing at the home scale level that achieves the same result as traditional all grain brewing. So when some of us see others trying to make it more complicated without evidence of a benefit (or when there’s evidence of no benefit), it’s a little confusing. If we wanted a complicated way of achieving the same thing, we’d be using a 5 tier e-keggle RIMS system.

There’s nothing wrong with tinkering with things for the fun or innovation of it, but don’t assume extra steps makes something better. You have to first ask why am I doing this and is there any evidence that these steps don’t make a difference?

 

[madscientist451]

I can see why some brewers think a pump is essential, but I've been brewing for years without one and don't plan on getting one. Keeping things simple and having less stuff to clean up and put away are priorities for me. Maybe when I have more free time I'll get a "system" that has re-circulation and some automation.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

There is a psychological tendency to jump on the bandwagon that if something is more complicated or has sexy extra steps it somehow always makes things better. A lot of things the pros do, don’t apply to the homebrew scale and don’t make a detectable difference in taste for us.

I think BIAB has become so popular because it’s a simpler and faster way of all grain brewing at the home scale level that achieves the same result as traditional all grain brewing. So when some of us see others trying to make it more complicated without evidence of a benefit (or when there’s evidence of no benefit), it’s a little confusing. If we wanted a complicated way of achieving the same thing, we’d be using a 5 tier e-keggle RIMS system.

There’s nothing wrong with tinkering with things for the fun or innovation of it, but don’t assume extra steps makes something better. You have to first ask why am I doing this and is there any evidence that these steps don’t make a difference?

Good points. The biggest issue with brewing beer is that "evidence" doesn't really exist for the most part. Some things are pretty obvious...is the beer clear? We can all see that pretty easily. Many aspects of beer are subject to taste and tolerances. One person's "good enough" may be lacking for someone else. One persons "fantastic" is literally undrinkable to another.

The bottom line is that most of the results are subjective. I'm all for people being happy with their process, but I'm also aware that not everyone has the same goals, priorities, budget etc.

I believe in sharing information, let people form their own opinions. There are a lot of people here who seem hell-bent on convincing people that the way they do things is the right way. I prefer to share knowledge (facts) and let people reach their own conclusions based on the facts and their own needs.

I brew in a bag right now...I don't like the results as well as what I had when I was doing a 3 vessel batch sparge setup. Now I'm looking for something with the simplicity of BIAB but the results like I had with the 3 vessel.

 

[LittleRiver]

I'm not claiming that there is, for sure, a difference, but the things in wort that make it not clear could impact flavor without impacting clarity.

To assuage my own curiosity regarding that question (and the question of whether or not I needed to re-circulate), a few years ago I did my own experiment. Two BIAB brews of a simple light colored recipe, the first taking care to make the wort as clear as possible, the second batch everything that was in the kettle was dumped in the fermenter. Both came out clear. Neither had taste problems, they both tasted great. At that point I stopped being concerned about the clear wort unicorn.

The beer in the photo below was made with no re-circulation, no clarifying agents in the boil, and no gelatin in the keg. I gave it two weeks in the fermenter, with a cold crash to 38F the last few days, and a week in the keg at 40F to carbonate.



I have experimented with clarifying agents, but abandoned them when I found that time & cold is all that is needed. I never even experimented with a re-circulation pump -- there's no need to.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

To assuage my own curiosity regarding that question (and the question of whether or not I needed to re-circulate), a few years ago I did my own experiment. Two BIAB brews of a simple light colored recipe, the first taking care to make the wort as clear as possible, the second batch everything that was in the kettle was dumped in the fermenter. Both came out clear. Neither had taste problems, they both tasted great. At that point I stopped being concerned about the clear wort unicorn.

The beer in the photo below was made with no re-circulation, no clarifying agents in the boil, and no gelatin in the keg. I gave it two weeks in the fermenter, with a cold crash to 38F the last few days, and a week in the keg at 40F to carbonate.

View attachment 670356

I have experimented with clarifying agents, but abandoned them when I found that time & cold is all that is needed. I never even experimented with a re-circulation pump -- there's no need to.

Yep, I don't have a picture, but I brewed the centennial blonde recipe BIAB and it came out absolutely clear as a bell. I have zero doubt that clarity of the wort has zero impact on ending up with clear beer. In fact, I think I said that earlier.

 

[madscientist451]

I brew in a bag right now...I don't like the results as well as what I had when I was doing a 3 vessel batch sparge setup.

Just curious, what is it about the results that you don't like compared to your previous method?
Now I'm wondering if I've just gotten used to what I've been making for the last few years and I'm missing something.....

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Just curious, what is it about the results that you don't like compared to your previous method?
Now I'm wondering if I've just gotten used to what I've been making for the last few years and I'm missing something.....

I brew a fair number of NEIPAs. They lost their brilliance... Just not the same pop. The only difference is bazooka filter and vorlauf vs lift a bag and drain. I switched to mashing with a bag.

 

[SouthBounds]

I just ordered a pump for a plate chiller. I haven't recirculated or whirlpooled a beer yet but now I have the option.

 

[beernutz]

When I BIAB I use a pump to:

1. Recirculate wort during mashing back into the bag over the top of the grain. I probably don't need to do this but I think it helps with extraction and improves clarity and since I have a pump handy why not?
2. Whirlpool hops after flame out. I do this with the immersion chiller recirculating arm since it is already in the wort to get sanitized.
3. Recirculate wort through my immersion chiller when chilling which probably cuts the cool down time in half and uses less water. I use a second pond pump to circulate ice water though the chiller after using ground water to get wort below 100. I use a lot less water doing this and can chill down into the 50s if I want using the immersion chiller.
4. Pump the 10 gallons of wort from the keggle to a 60L Speidel fermenter. My burner is pretty low and I don't think gravity alone could empty the keggle into the Speidel. When I pump wort into the Speidel I put an aeration sprayer on the hose end so that the additional velocity of the wort above that with a gravity feed I think achieves more aeration.

None of these things are absolutely essential except maybe 4 and even then I could put the burner on a table or something in order to gravity feed wort into the fermenter. But I don't have to.

OTOH, none of these pump uses are complicated or require extra brew day time and number 3 actually saves quite a bit of time.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I have a pump, but I only use it to chill the wort.
Like the O.P. - I brew for my wife and I, and some friends/family when they are over.
I do it because I enjoy it, and a creative outlet.
I don't have any desire to complicate things.