Why nottingham sucks

[Firstnten]

If the room temp goes above 72F the beer tastes like sour ass.

15 gallons of beer wasted.....

 

[olllllo]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Nottingham

It produces low concentrations of fruity and estery aromas and has been described as neutral for an ale yeast, allowing the full natural flavor of malt to develop. Good tolerance to low fermentation temperatures, 14°C (57°F), allow this strain to brew lager-style beer. Recommended 14° to 21°C (57° to 70°F) fermentation temperature range.

http://www.danstaryeast.com/nottingham.html

The recommended fermentation temperature range of this strain is 14° to 21°C (57° to 70°F) with good tolerance to low fermentation temperatures (12°C/54°F) that allow this strain to be used in lager-style beer.

 

[olllllo]

Also read this:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/nottingham-yeast-recall-135065/

 

[KingBrianI]

I think you'll have the same problem with most ale yeasts. Either control temps or start making belgians! But in any case, that 15 gallons of beer is probably going to taste great if you let it age for several months.

 

[McKBrew]

Nottingham is rated to 70 degrees. If the beer itself was fermenting at 72 degrees there probably wouldn't be an issue, but since beer ferments several degrees above ambient temperature it becomes an issue.

The issue is not the yeast, but the lack of proper fermentation temperature control and you would have likely had issue with other yeasts.

Don't blame the product when it's the process.

 

[theacolyte]

I've fermented with notty at >70 before and it came out fine...

 

[Firstnten]

I've fermented with notty at >70 before and it came out fine...

what type of beer?

 

[Firstnten]

Nottingham is rated to 70 degrees. If the beer itself was fermenting at 72 degrees there probably wouldn't be an issue, but since beer ferments several degrees above ambient temperature it becomes an issue.

The issue is not the yeast, but the lack of proper fermentation temperature control and you would have likely had issue with other yeasts.

Don't blame the product when it's the process.

I had a heff going in the same room and it came out great.

Most recent a pumpkin ale with the last batch it and came out fine.

The room went 72-73 degrees for the start of fermentation I was worried after the last two batches went bad....I'll never use this stuff again unless I can keep the temp as per...

I've done about 20 batches in the past year and this yeast was the only yeast I had a problem with. Seems to be very temperature-mental...

 

[KingBrianI]

What other yeasts have you used at that temp?

 

[bob1852]

I've done about 20 batches in the past year and this yeast was the only yeast I had a problem with. Seems to be very temperature-mental...

72 is a little high for Notty - although the old Notty probably would have been fine.

The new Notty is having some issues - see the recall thread that ollllo posted

 

[Firstnten]

Also read this:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/nottingham-yeast-recall-135065/

yeah I saw this and had great replies/convo about it from Yopper...

Just pissed that it happened AGAIN...As soon as the room went over 70 and it was proly for over 24 hours at the start of fermentation...I knew once again I f**ked myself....

This stuff must taste awesome when fermented at proper temps because everyone here seems to love and use it...

 

[Firstnten]

What other yeasts have you used at that temp?

White labs german heff the room go to 80-82

White labs Euro ale

and finally

white labs brit ale..

All fermented out without problem right next to the Notty....

 

[Whut]

the beer tastes like sour ass.

I don't even want to know!

 

[SteveM]

Nottingham is rated to 70 degrees. If the beer itself was fermenting at 72 degrees there probably wouldn't be an issue, but since beer ferments several degrees above ambient temperature it becomes an issue.

The issue is not the yeast, but the lack of proper fermentation temperature control and you would have likely had issue with other yeasts.

Don't blame the product when it's the process.

I disagree - I think that in this case, the issue is precisely the yeast. The linked threads clearly show that there have been ongoing problems with Nottingham yeast for months. That thread is also full of comments to the effect that the brewers probably screwed up, but in the end the yeast was found to be the culprit.

 

[SteveM]

I don't even want to know!

Agree - since I have no experience with the taste of sour ass, I can't comment on the comparison. Kudos to those who are willing to undertake those kinds of taste tests though. Anything for science, I guess.

Nottingham will get their issues fixed and deliver a good product...eventually. But I remain a skeptic, at least until my Safale 04 and 05 run out.

 

[theacolyte]

what type of beer?

My raspberry ale - I tasted it before racking it to my secondary and it was fine...

 

[McKBrew]

Unless I've missed something, the issues with Nottingham tended to be with slow fermentation. I may be wrong in regards to the OP, but there is an inherent risk involved when fermenting at or above the temperature limit of a specific yeast.

 

[OLB]

I had a similar problem with 2 batches of EdWort's HPA. My yeast was very likely in the recalled range (based on comments from here and BMW), but I also didn't control temps as well as I should have. I am about to kick the first keg and it has improved over time. The second keg will sit for a few more months and I'm sure it will be fine.

Even though the 1st keg didn't taste like sour ass, it was slightly sour and estery. But I have drank most of my mistakes and didn't have a problem doing so this time. Some other people have liked it and gotten 2nd and 3rd pints. I will try the recipe again during winter when temp will not be a problem. I want to taste the HPA as it is meant to be.

 

[Firstnten]

I don't even want to know!

You don't sour ass is much worse the sour p***y

 

[Firstnten]

I had a similar problem with 2 batches of EdWort's HPA. My yeast was very likely in the recalled range (based on comments from here and BMW), but I also didn't control temps as well as I should have. I am about to kick the first keg and it has improved over time. The second keg will sit for a few more months and I'm sure it will be fine.

Even though the 1st keg didn't taste like sour ass, it was slightly sour and estery. But I have drank most of my mistakes and didn't have a problem doing so this time. Some other people have liked it and gotten 2nd and 3rd pints. I will try the recipe again during winter when temp will not be a problem. I want to taste the HPA as it is meant to be.

I have a wheat that is kegged with the sour taste and members here have said wait...but space is limited once a beer comes up to replace I guess put it in a carboy and forget about it?

 

[OLB]

I have a wheat that is kegged with the sour taste and members here have said wait...but space is limited once a beer comes up to replace I guess put it in a carboy and forget about it?

If you have a spare caroy that should work. I only have 3 kegs and a 2 keg keezer, but I will find a way to keep the sour batch in one of them. I'm thinking that when the weather drops around here I can leave that keg in the garage for the winter. Hopefully the lagering treatment helps.

 

[TXCrash]

Hang onto or bottle the batch if you can. It'll be good or at least drinkable in a few months.

I had a batch of mild which fermented at close to 80 with nottingham. Farking undrinkable back in august. Let it sit till a week ago and now its pretty good. Definitely not one of my best, but not bad either. Consider than in a mild you can hide no flaws...

 

[bhatchable]

I'm not sure why OP is shocked... yeast temp ranges are published for a reason. pushing either side of that temp range and especially going outside of it are going to make for off beer. That's why temp control is important, and if you don't have temp control, than be smart enough to pick yeast/styles suited to your ambient temp. it's not the yeast that sucks, it's the planning that does

 

[Firstnten]

I'm not sure why OP is shocked... yeast temp ranges are published for a reason. pushing either side of that temp range and especially going outside of it are going to make for off beer. That's why temp control is important, and if you don't have temp control, than be smart enough to pick yeast/styles suited to your ambient temp. it's not the yeast that sucks, it's the planning that does

I would say more so my ignorance and assumptions. But that being said the LHBS recommended it. And +/- 4 degrees IMO should not have that huge an effect on a product. Eps when tolerance's for some of the other yeasts where comparable and produced no off flavors or tastes. At the very least now IMO Nottingham needs a strict temp range, or overall (57) lower ferment temp, as opposed to just about every yeast strain I have used so far, from beer to wine. So IMO Nottingham does suck ass on that fact alone(j/k). But because allot of members here seem to love it and defend it to the death (I see that posts where deleted here none of which I got to read, so I assume people where "unhappy" with the thread) I'll have to use it again as prescribed. I would assume from that, that it's worth the extra effort and attention (either that or just use it in the winter months). People around here are very knowledgeable and passionate about brewing and since I'm a noob I defer to people like you.

 

[Edcculus]

Well, I think people got defensive because of the thread title. You can get very good results with this yeast in the mid 60's. The thing is, yeast is a living organism, not some product we use to turn sugar into alcohol. The labs aren't going in and programming the temperature tolerance and the ester production at certain temperatures. You say a +/-4 degrees difference shouldnt make a difference. The fact of the matter is that for any yeast strain, it does. Take a Kolsch yeast for example. Its perfectly happy around 58-60 ish. If you warm it up to 63*F, it turns really fruity. A lot of Saison strains will get stuck if they aren't warm enough. Then, when you get them too warm, they stall again.

 

[SteveM]

Unless I've missed something, the issues with Nottingham tended to be with slow fermentation. I may be wrong in regards to the OP, but there is an inherent risk involved when fermenting at or above the temperature limit of a specific yeast.

The issue was tiny punctures in their envelopes by the date stamper, leading to all sorts of effects - slow fermentation (which invites the risk of other micro-organisms taking over the job of fermenting, with unpleasant tasting results), dead yeast (from extended exposure to air), contaminated yeast (also from air exposure), etc.

Slow fermentation is just one effect of their issue, but it's serious. No sanitizing is perfect. A fast starting ferment will help to keep the other organisms at bay, while a slow start may allow other them to become active and produce off-flavors.

I used Nottingham for years and will probably go back to it eventually. When they were selling good yeast, it produced fine beer and was not sensitive about temperature ranges above what is marked. This allowed me to make beer through the summer, when temperatures in my kitchen (where my fermenter is kept while in use) are often above 70F. I've never gotten a bad batch, even under those conditions.

With all their documented problems, and the company's admission that they've sold bad product, I don't think it is unreasonable to set a default assumption that this problem is with the yeast and not with the brewer's process.

 

[Firstnten]

Well, I think people got defensive because of the thread title. You can get very good results with this yeast in the mid 60's. The thing is, yeast is a living organism, not some product we use to turn sugar into alcohol. The labs aren't going in and programming the temperature tolerance and the ester production at certain temperatures. You say a +/-4 degrees difference shouldnt make a difference. The fact of the matter is that for any yeast strain, it does. Take a Kolsch yeast for example. Its perfectly happy around 58-60 ish. If you warm it up to 63*F, it turns really fruity. A lot of Saison strains will get stuck if they aren't warm enough. Then, when you get them too warm, they stall again.

I was joking around. And real fruity is IMO drinkable. Sour is not. So for me thats another point. Also just about any thermometer is going to have a standard deviation. I don't brew or ferment in a laboratory I brew is a room in my house.

 

[Firstnten]

The issue was tiny punctures in their envelopes by the date stamper, leading to all sorts of effects - slow fermentation (which invites the risk of other micro-organisms taking over the job of fermenting, with unpleasant tasting results), dead yeast (from extended exposure to air), contaminated yeast (also from air exposure), etc.

Slow fermentation is just one effect of their issue, but it's serious. No sanitizing is perfect. A fast starting ferment will help to keep the other organisms at bay, while a slow start may allow other them to become active and produce off-flavors.

I used Nottingham for years and will probably go back to it eventually. When they were selling good yeast, it produced fine beer and was not sensitive about temperature ranges above what is marked. This allowed me to make beer through the summer, when temperatures in my kitchen (where my fermenter is kept while in use) are often above 70F. I've never gotten a bad batch, even under those conditions.

With all their documented problems, and the company's admission that they've sold bad product, I don't think it is unreasonable to set a default assumption that this problem is with the yeast and not with the brewer's process.

This is the type of response I was hoping to get. Has anyone made the same mistake with temps and how where your results. I guess I should have been more coddling with the thread title and less abrasive. Although I find it funny that people would get that upset about the title that they would have to insult me to the point where their posts get deleted.

After getting these poor results I looked around for threads about notty, and did run into the slow ferment times but I did not get to the punctures in the packing info.

I find it very informative and appreciate the info.

 

[Edcculus]

I recently used a bad pack in my smoked porter. I didn't really notice any off flavors. It did finish a few points high, but nothing to be alarmed about. From what I read, the punctures have more to do with degrading viability than letting infections in. Though I wouldn't dismiss the possibility.

 

[BierMuncher]

Keep the ferment temp down on most ales and you'll have a cleaner tasting beer.

If you have more than one beer with a sour taste...you might have some lactobacillus contamination issues. Tart and sort of sourdough tasting?