Why is my beer sour?

[OKCAg2002]

Would the bottle conditioning reveal an infection that is already present in the beer? I ferment at a lower temp than my house. I will store the bottled beer in a closet and it'll be around 70.

 

[cobrem]

In line with the possible infection source, I've read in some posts here that a stir bar (if you use one) may be harboring some bugs - any cracks or nicks could be a problem.

Otherwise, I'd replace the buckets and the tubing, including auto siphon and bottling wand, if you determine it's an ongoing infection.

Are you getting anything like a pellicle in your fermenter?

 

[OKCAg2002]

No. My fermentation always looks healthy. Nothing like that.

 

[vinylrooster]

I have an idea. If you have any friends who brew, go over their house on a day that they are siphon some brew into your brewing bucket (that was made with all their equipment). Thus way, you'll really know if your bottling bucket is the culprit.

The alternative option is to do the vise versa....your beer, they're bottling bucket

 

[IslandLizard]

I have always done a starter with a two cups water, 1/2 cup DME wort. I will pour that starter directly into the wort when it's cooled.

Yeah - I know it's really strange. I am almost certain that it comes out through my bottling process. Either that, or the bug is present before hand and for whatever reason shows up in the flavor after bottling.

So, yes - to answer your question it seems fine before bottling.

That's a very strong starter. Typically they are made at a gravity between 1.030 and 1.040.
1 part of DME in 10 parts of water, e.g., 100gr DME in 1000ml water (1 : 10). Yours is almost double that. 72gr/473ml water = 1 : 6.5. I think How to Brew uses that ratio.

 

[OKCAg2002]

I just opened the two styles to see if I could describe the flavor. It's just pungent and sour. It's not something that I want to drink.

I wonder if the water from the city of Edmond is causing some off flavors. I think I will just pitch out the tubing (needs to be replaced anyways) and give the he spigot a good cleaning. I'll just mix up fresh batches of StarSan here on out. How many gallons do you guys do for a batch of beer? Five gallons? Guess I'm just trying to save a few bucks but it's costing me more in the long run. I'm going of I give the bottling bucket a bleach soak and inspect it thoroughly. All of my bottles are going to get a long soak in PBW. Anything else I'm missing?

I thought about taking a sample to my LHBS and see if they can ID the bacteria strain. Is that common? Can they drink some of my beer?

 

[OKCAg2002]

That's a very strong starter. Typically they are made at a gravity between 1.030 and 1.040. 1 part of DME in 10 parts of water, 100gr DME in 1000ml water (1 : 10). Yours is almost double that. 72gr/473ml water = 1 : 6.5. I think How to Brew still has that ratio.

Gotcha! That might help. Ill scale up the water next ignite.

 

[OKCAg2002]

You know what? My tubing is pretty cloudy. Could that be a source of contamination?

 

[IslandLizard]

Do you have the tubing submerged in Starsan all the time? I do and it gets almost opaque white. When I dry it it gets clear again.

Tubing is hard to clean and worse once it's dirty. I have long brushes and I also send a wad of fabric with cleaner down on a fishing line... back and forth.
The best way is to clean tubing right away. Rinse out with hot water, soak in some PBW, rinse well again, then in a bucket with Starsan. Then there may still be some residue stuck on the inside...

So yes, hoses, racking canes and siphons could be a potential source of bugs. But you had the problem from the first brew already, and that makes little sense, 'cause all your equipment was new then. I still suspect the bottling process.

It is possible something gets into your starters and takes over after the yeast is done, like Lacto, Pedio, or Acetobacter. Brett is slow acting and would take much longer to show its presence, and is not sour, more funky. Is there any scum or pellicle in the necks of the bottles, particularly the older ones? Or a pellicle/haze in your fermentor after a few weeks?

 

[OKCAg2002]

Nope. I looked really closely and there wasn't any signs of infection in bottles.

It's possible I'm doing my starters wrong. But my first beer I used dry yeast and rehydrated it. Thus, no starter. Same odd flavor.

I'll say this. My bock that I did finished out at 1.019 so it was pretty sweet tasting out of the fermenter anyways. It could just be a bad tasting beer after it's conditioned. The fat tire clone may have been bottled a week early. Perhaps I just screwed them up.

I brewed a brown ale prior, and it actually tasted pretty good. Same process. I also did an IPA and I couldn't detect the sour flavor.

Someone in another thread suggested that I might just have a sensitive palate to the proverbial extract twang. I guess that is possible, but the extract I use is from reputable sellers and should be fresh. It could be some of that, but I'm not completely sold that this is my issue.

My suspicion is that my sanitation in bottling is suspect and I need to be more thorough there. Thanks so much for your help, though!

 

[IslandLizard]

I really resent that this poster has the same sour beer problem being discussed in 2 different forums. Here's the other one.

We've doubled up on pretty much every solution regarding contamination, bottling buckets, spigots etc. I think one of these threads ought to be closed. This one is in the beginners forum, where issues like that are common and in the right place. The other thread is in Fermentation & Yeast and sanitation has little to do with that.

We shouldn't lose the wisdom of these 2 threads so i do not suggest deleting one of them.

It is just really bad forum etiquette to have double threads running. And a waste of time.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

One issue I had starting out was sour beers after about batch 4 or so. What happened with us was our fermenter got stained. If your plastic bucket is stained or scratched throw it out. Not sure if it's been mentioned but that was an issue with us.

 

[OKCAg2002]

My city adds chloramines to the tap water. I've read that depending on the quantity, it can really contribute to some off flavors as well. Could some of my problems be as simple as adjusting my brewing water?

And sorry about doubling up on the thread in another forum. I didn't realize that would be poor forum etiquette. Lesson learned.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you know you have chlorine or chloramines in your water you do want to use 1/4 Campden tablet per 5 gallons of water (or use a pinch of potassium metabisulphite). Stir well. Just boiling alone will not drive off chloramines in reasonable time.

Not treating for Chlorine or Chloramines can ruin your beer. It leaves a medicinal, plasticky, band-aid like flavor. The flavor threshold is pretty low, and easy to detect. Could you mistake this for sourness?

Well, now you experienced that double posting also leaves bad flavors

 

[OKCAg2002]

You know - I'm starting to think that chlorine might be at least one culprit here. I use mostly tap water for the boil and then topped off with Ozarka spring water. I'll pick up some Camden tablets at my LHBS and then ramp up my sanitation of bottling. Do you think the chlorine tastes would show up more so in the bottle? They seem to get worse with age rather than better.

Thanks again! You've been a tremendous help.

 

[OKCAg2002]

So just a quick question again. Since we've pretty much narrowed it down to chloophenols, do those drop out over time in bottles? I think it's actually gotten worse over time. Or should I dump them?