Why don't I see people using full size 'traditional' kegs for homebrew?

[unfairbeef]

In many forums, people I talk to and internet research, I mainly see the use of corny kegs employed. My main query addresses the larger traditional kegs that one would have filled at a commercial location. Is it more difficult or just that much less convenient for homebrewers or something? I have the space to store the larger kegs and would like to brew larger batches so I would like to use the larger kegs, personally. Is this a bad idea?

 

[ThreeDogsNE]

Cornelius (and Firestone) ball lock kegs were used by Pepsi, and have been pretty much phased out. That made for a lot of very nice stainless steel kegs that were surplus and going cheap, making them popular for us as scavenging, improvising homebrewers. I missed the best days, but still got some for $20 each. Now, $50 seems a good price to find. Meanwhile, genuine beer kegs are considerably more if you buy them in a straightforward fashion. I guess beer kegs are cheaper if you pay the deposit and then keep them (which raises ethical and legal questions that have been talked to death here in other threads). If one has no prior investment, Sanke kegs might make more economic sense now than Corneys.

There is also the issue of how much you brew in one batch. Most folks here are 5 or 10 gallon batch brewers. A one barrel batch means 31 gallons, which is a lot of the same beer. I for one would rather try other recipes and other styles.

There are also nearly forgotten legal limits on annual brewing of 200 gallons per household, IIRC. 6 batches, and you're limiting out, legally.

 

[KeythL]

In many forums, people I talk to and internet research, I mainly see the use of corny kegs employed. My main query addresses the larger traditional kegs that one would have filled at a commercial location. Is it more difficult or just that much less convenient for homebrewers or something? I have the space to store the larger kegs and would like to brew larger batches so I would like to use the larger kegs, personally. Is this a bad idea?

It's a matter of logistics and economics, most extract kits make 5 gallon batches. Brewing equipment capable of making 5 gallon batches is relatively inexpensive, the same for fermentation vessels. Most people start out homebrewing this way (and are happy staying at this volume). Standard corny kegs are five gallons.

Some people scale up to do 10~11 gallon batches and simply use two fermentors and two corny kegs (or bottle half\keg half, or don't keg at all). Utilizing Cornelius kegs also lends itself to being able to have a greater variety of beers on tap at a volume that makes sense for most private consumption. I currently have 3 Cornelius kegs in my kegerator that was designed for a single half barrel; a Cream Ale, an Irish Red Ale, and a Stout, it's basically the same volume as a 1/2 barrel (only 1/2 a gallon difference). I have three distict styles available (something for everyone...that likes beer anyway ).

Everything gets significantly more expensive to scale production up to utilize 1/2 barrel kegs. It's just not practical for the vast majority of homebrewers. You could of course make several smaller batches and combine them to fill a 1/2 barrel, but it seams like an awful lot of work.

I also think Cornelius kegs are easier to fill\maintain (I don't know for sure...I've never tried to sanitize\fill a Sanke Keg).

Keyth

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Yep. To brew 15 gallon batches, you basically need an 18-20 gallon fermenter. And a 20 gallon brew pot. And *minimum* 15 gallon mash tun, while 20+ would be better. And then a bigger HLT. And bigger burners to ensure you can actually bring the sucker to a boil. And pumps, because nobody but superman is going to be able to lift those weights, particularly for some of the hotter liquids. And a counterflow or plate chiller, because an immersion is going to take years to cool 15+ gal of wort. Oh, and if you want more than one beer on tap at a time, you need a MUCH bigger kegerator because the 15.5 gallon Sanke kegs are so much bigger in diameter.

All that equals huge $$$ -- and most homebrewers are interested in variety. 15 gallon batches take a LONG time to drink. I brew 10-gallon batches, and I usually have too much beer in the house because I want to brew often enough to have a good variety, but the amount of time to actually drain a batch is many months because I'm serving 5 beers in the kegerator at a single time and I drink whatever I'm in the mood for, so they all last a long time.

Can it be done? Of course! Hell, there's a guy in my homebrew club who brews 50-gallon batches. But they're the exception, rather than the rule, and for good reason.

 

[JuanMoore]

Commercial sankey kegs also commonly come in smaller sizes more suitable for homebrewing, but the main reason corny kegs are so popular among homebrewers is the price. The price of cornies has been going up, but it's still much lower than sankey kegs. I think sankey kegs are a much better system personally, and have been building up a collection of 1/6 bbl (~5gal) and 1/4 bbl (7.75 gal) sankey kegs. I usually brew 12-15 gal batches, but still prefer to ferment and serve in smaller kegs, partially so I can pitch different yeasts or use different dry hops for slightly different beers, and partially so that I can have more variety on tap at any given time. Maybe some day I'll be able to sell all of my cornies off and use the sankeys exclusively.

 

[hercher]

Another concern for me with using Sanke kegs is the difficulty of cleaning them. With a Corny keg, you can always do a visual inspection simply by removing the lid. Sanke kegs typically require a keg washing and sanitizing machine.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Another concern for me with using Sanke kegs is the difficulty of cleaning them. With a Corny keg, you can always do a visual inspection simply by removing the lid. Sanke kegs typically require a keg washing and sanitizing machine.

I ferment in a Sanke, and cleaning isn't that bad. Some PBW and this carboy/sanke keg cleaner gets it pretty clean. Then, just put a bit of water in the keg, bring it to a boil, and it sanitizes itself

 

[JuanMoore]

Another concern for me with using Sanke kegs is the difficulty of cleaning them. With a Corny keg, you can always do a visual inspection simply by removing the lid. Sanke kegs typically require a keg washing and sanitizing machine.

How many people have trouble cleaning carboys? Cleaning a sankey isn't any different, other than being harder to see inside. A quick soak in hot oxiclean is more than enough for a keg that was just used for serving. I also ferment in sankeys, and they often require an overnight soak. As mentioned, they can be directly heated for easy sanitation too. A keg/carboy cleaner that circulates cleaning solution makes it easy, but isn't necessary at all.

 

[hefehawk]

I recently switched from buying commercial kegs for my kegerator to homebrewing. I like the corny kegs much better than the sanke kegs. I like the fact that you have two connectors for liquid and gas instead of one coupler which often gets tangled up with other lines. The ball lock connectors are easier to attach and tap than the standard coupler with less leaking when you attach and disconnect. I never opened a sanke keg up, but I would imagine it is much harder to do than a corny keg where all you have to do is depressurize and take off a simple lid with no tools involved. This opening also creates a huge hole to make it easy to clean and rack beer. I really don't see many advantages to sanke kegs unless you wanted to go with a larger size.

 

[Nohup]

Much love for fermenting/serving out of a sankey.

Back when corny kegs were 20 bucks a pop it made sense to use them, but now that they're closer to $50 the sankeys become cost effective. (15.5 gallons of corny storage is $150-$200 now. If you need that much storage, (and I do), then it makes sense.

As for cleaning. With a blown keg, it's enough to swirl/soak with PBW/Oxyclean, rinse, then sanitize. That's about all I ever did with corny's when I used them.

If you're going to keg with the sankeys, do yourself a favor, and at try the snap-rings that replace the "slinky" ring that a keg normally uses. Either get a Kegman kit to try, or buy directly from McMaster. I bought a good snap-ring pliers, and now, opening/closing a keg is a 2 minute operation. (Some people like staying with the slinky rings, and that's fine too, but at least try to snap-rings to see if you like them)

 

[wilserbrewer]

Sanke kegs work very well for homebrew. Only downside to using the 15 gal size IMO is the weight, and the amount of room needed once the keg has 2-3 gallons in it. I recently have brewed several 15 gal baches, but prefer to use two tall sanke 1/4 kegs rather than a 1/2 keg.

Installing the spiral retaining ring is quite easy once you develop a technique, IMO the snap rings referenced above are not needed if you practice w/ the sanke rings as shown in the link below.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/installing-retaining-ring-sanke-keg-64128/

 

[mobly99]

You'd need a monster kegerator to keep a variety of beers on tap with sanke kegs.

 

[phenry]

I love my 1/6 bbl sanke. Way more than any of my cornys. No need to give it a shot of CO2 if I'm naturally carbing it, and taking the spear out is super easy. All you need is a small-ish screwdriver, maybe a hammer. And of course transferring from my 1/4 bbl fermenter with CO2 is pretty awesome.

I like sankes. I could never justify filling a full 1/2 bbl though, not unless it was for a big party or something.

 

[Yooper]

Sanke kegs work very well for homebrew. Only downside to using the 15 gal size IMO is the weight, and the amount of room needed once the keg has 2-3 gallons in it.

That's the thing- I don't have a big conical, and I definitely can't lift 15 gallons of beer in a keg. The empty keg is around 30 pounds, and 15 gallons of beer weighs 120 pounds. So, a full 15 gallon keg is around 150 pounds. I have enough to do to lift my 45 pound full corney kegs!

I also don't have a system for fermenting 15 gallon batches, or for boiling that size batch. I can easily do 10 gallons on my system, and end up filling two corney kegs.

 

[unfairbeef]

Wow, the response here is absolutely phenomenal. What I thought was going to be such a noob question it would get laughed out, has instead provided a wealth of insight. I really appreciate what you all do here. I think I may stay a while.

 

[JuanMoore]

You'd need a monster kegerator to keep a variety of beers on tap with sanke kegs.

Sankey kegs come in several different sizes. One of the most common sizes is the 1/6 bbl, which is nearly identical in size and capacity to a corny keg.

 

[philrose]

Wow, the response here is absolutely phenomenal. What I thought was going to be such a noob question it would get laughed out, has instead provided a wealth of insight. I really appreciate what you all do here. I think I may stay a while.

We're glad to have you

 

[hercher]

Wow, the response here is absolutely phenomenal. What I thought was going to be such a noob question it would get laughed out, has instead provided a wealth of insight. I really appreciate what you all do here. I think I may stay a while.

I've never seen a serious question get laughed out.

 

[unfairbeef]

So I ended up compromising, to a degree. I got a 1/4 barrel slim. Actually got a really nice deal. Found a kegerator with an 11.3 kg co2 tank, tower on top, 1/4 barrel slim keg and all the hookups for $50! In working condition with beer in it! Gotta love craigslist...

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

So I ended up compromising, to a degree. I got a 1/4 barrel slim. Actually got a really nice deal. Found a kegerator with an 11.3 kg co2 tank, tower on top, 1/4 barrel slim keg and all the hookups for $50! In working condition with beer in it! Gotta love craigslist...

Wow! Bet the husband is gonna be *pissed* when he gets home to find it missing and that his wife ran away with the milkman...

(I know which one he'll miss more, actually).

 

[unfairbeef]

Haha! His actual comment as I gave him the cash - "the wife wants it gone, now it's [expletive deleted]'in gone". I suspect she was the one I was texting with about picking it up...

 

[wilserbrewer]

So I ended up compromising, to a degree. I got a 1/4 barrel slim. Actually got a really nice deal. Found a kegerator with an 11.3 kg co2 tank, tower on top, 1/4 barrel slim keg and all the hookups for $50! In working condition with beer in it! Gotta love craigslist...

Haha....some "compromise". The 1/4 keg is worth $50 bucks all day long, the other stuff is free bonus...steal of a deal!

 

[unfairbeef]

I haunt craigslist, constantly. I recommend using Ifttt.com and setting up a rule for each search you do daily. You will get a message any time your search turns up results. I have gotten so many ridiculous deals this way.