White house beer

[RobertRGeorge]

I think he should make an Anchor Steam clone and give the West Coasties some respeck

 

[WaltStarr]

i am sure it will be great its a pretty basic recipe.

what beer do you think obama should make next ?

I can't say anything about Obama, but I think I might start looking into BIAB.

 

[Netflyer]

White House Honey Porter

Ingredients

• 2 (3.3 lb) cans light unhopped malt extract
• 3/4 lb Munich Malt (cracked)
• 1 lb crystal 20 malt (cracked)
• 6 oz black malt (cracked)
• 3 oz chocolate malt (cracked)
• 1 lb White House Honey
• 10 HBUs bittering hops
• 1/2 oz Hallertaur Aroma hops
• 1 pkg Nottingham dry yeast
• 3/4 cup corn sugar for bottling

Directions

1. In a 6 qt pot, add grains to 2.25 qts of 168˚ water. Mix well to bring temp down to 155˚. Steep on stovetop at 155˚ for 45 minutes. Meanwhile, bring 2 gallons of water to 165˚ in a 12 qt pot. Place strainer over, then pour and spoon all the grains and liquid in. Rinse with 2 gallons of 165˚ water. Let liquid drain through. Discard the grains and bring the liquid to a boil. Set aside.
2. Add the 2 cans of malt extract and honey into the pot. Stir well.
3. Boil for an hour. Add half of the bittering hops at the 15 minute mark, the other half at 30 minute mark, then the aroma hops at the 60 minute mark.
4. Set aside and let stand for 15 minutes.
5. Place 2 gallons of chilled water into the primary fermenter and add the hot wort into it. Top with more water to total 5 gallons if necessary. Place into an ice bath to cool down to 70-80˚.
6. Activate dry yeast in 1 cup of sterilized water at 75-90˚ for fifteen minutes. Pitch yeast into the fermenter. Fill airlock halfway with water. Ferment at room temp (64-68&#730 for 3-4 days.
7. Siphon over to a secondary glass fermenter for another 4-7 days.
8. To bottle, make a priming syrup on the stove with 1 cup sterile water and 3/4 cup priming sugar, bring to a boil for five minutes. Pour the mixture into an empty bottling bucket. Siphon the beer from the fermenter over it. Distribute priming sugar evenly. Siphon into bottles and cap. Let sit for 1-2 weeks at 75˚.

Not sure if anyone has seen this published recipe for the White House Honey Porter but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't it established that you do not boil honey and instead add it to the cooling wort?

 

[passedpawn]

I add it at 5 minutes. Boiling longer and I'd guess some of the volatile compounds that give honey its flavor and aroma are lost to steam.

I think adding it to cooled wort is a very bad idea. Honey won't support the growth of bacteria, but that doesn't mean it's sterile when you add it.

 

[Golddiggie]

I don't heat honey above 100-110F for anything it's going to be used in. Once you go above 110F you start to lose the compounds that make honey great (flavors and aromas). At boiling temps, it doesn't take long to remove them (even a minute is far too long IMO, actually even seconds is too long).

I've had best results when adding honey once fermentation has slowed down.

Being afraid to add honey to a cooled wort is just unfounded. I've added honey to batches once fermentation has slowed as well as during fermentation (step feeding a must more honey is done all the time) without ANY issues at all. There are plenty of mazers that do this too, without any negative impact.

 

[Netflyer]

It was sad for me to see that the honey from on the premises will not really impact the flavor of the beer like it should... they tried hard but should have asked the experts... Ok, who is going to tell the White House Brewer the correct way to brew it next time ;p?

 

[passedpawn]

Unfounded? I would say adding anything that is not sterile to cooled wort is risky. Please explain why it is not.

BTW, I made a couple of meads with room temp honey, no problem either. I assumed that the alcohol got so high so fast that any bacteria was quickly poisoned. Not sure though. It might be that the honey I had had been pasteurized. It came in unsealed 1g milk cartons though.

I don't heat honey above 100-110F for anything it's going to be used in. Once you go above 110F you start to lose the compounds that make honey great (flavors and aromas). At boiling temps, it doesn't take long to remove them (even a minute is far too long IMO, actually even seconds is too long).

I've had best results when adding honey once fermentation has slowed down.

Being afraid to add honey to a cooled wort is just unfounded. I've added honey to batches once fermentation has slowed as well as during fermentation (step feeding a must more honey is done all the time) without ANY issues at all. There are plenty of mazers that do this too, without any negative impact.

 

[amandabab]

One pound of honey in beer, add it to the boil at 5. Its really there for the name and a little extra fermentables. 18lbs honey for a batch of mead, thats not getting boiled.

 

[milliser]

What if you used honey granules?

 

[Obliviousbrew]

I made a Robust Honey Porter a couple of months ago... I added the honey with 5 minutes left in the boil. It haves a honey scent... some people that tried it and were not told that there was honey in the there picked up the honey anyways.... I understand that if you boil the honey a lot of the aromatics will volatilize but I don´t find a bad practice to add it in the last 5 minutes of the boil. Of course I can be wrong but can someone explain me why?

 

[Golddiggie]

I've used 100% RAW honey without any issue at all. There's been times where it's taken a while to go post-lag phase, so IF anything was going to happen, it would have. I do practice normal sanitation when making mead or brewing beer. Using StarSan helps out a lot. I've also warmed up honey and poured it into the fermenter, on a beer, after a few weeks of it going (beer was about 9% on it's own) to help the batch out some. With the funnel sanitized, there was no issue at all.

I have batches of mead in process that the must was never heated above 100-110F (the honey had warmer water added to help it mix easier). No issues at all with those. Not heated to pasteurize it, or kill the honey.

Look in the Got Mead forums about how many people are making mead without heating the honey at all. Even people that have been making mead for a long time (and have books published about it, like Ken Schramm) are using this method. Those books that are still available, with outdated information, are not being updated because of the publishers, NOT the authors.

You cannot lump honey (even raw, just filtered honey) into the same group as other post-boil additions. You also need to have a different mentality when making mead compared with brewing beer. Very different processes/methods are used between them.

As for informing the WH... Not going to be done by me. They can do whatever they will (like brewing extract batches) for all I care. The posted recipes from them just shows how little they actually know about brewing. IMO, if anyone should be brewing all grain, it's the people there. Of course, they probably don't have a clue how to actually do it. I also think the entire release of their recipes was severely over-hyped to a sickening degree. Especially once you got to look at the recipes. IMO, nothing special about them at all.

 

[joyceman]

18lbs honey for a batch of mead, thats not getting boiled.

Try a bochet mead, honey boiled for 2 hours. Real good stuff.

 

[itsernst]

Im curious to try this. Would it make more sense to add the honey when you are cooling your wort to room temp? Say in the 100 to 110 range so that it still breaks down but not get rid of the honey flavor?

 

[amandabab]

Try a bochet mead, honey boiled for 2 hours. Real good stuff.

that's a different thing all together, not so boiling as you are caramelizing for a long time at soft crack temps then burning it.

 

[oldwinemaker]

WHITE HOUSE HONEY PORTER
Ingredients
• 2 (3.3 lb) cans light unhopped malt extract
• 3/4 lb Munich Malt (cracked)
• 1 lb crystal 20 malt (cracked)
• 6 oz black malt (cracked)
• 3 oz chocolate malt (cracked)
• 1 lb White House Honey
• 10 HBUs bittering hops
• 1/2 oz Hallertaur Aroma hops
• 1 pkg Nottingham dry yeast
• 3/4 cup corn sugar for bottling

Directions
1. In a 6 qt pot, add grains to 2.25 qts of 168˚ water. Mix well to bring temp down to 155˚. Steep on stovetop at 155˚ for 45 minutes. Meanwhile, bring 2 gallons of water to 165˚ in a 12 qt pot. Place strainer over, then pour and spoon all the grains and liquid in. Rinse with 2 gallons of 165˚ water. Let liquid drain through. Discard the grains and bring the liquid to a boil. Set aside.
2. Add the 2 cans of malt extract and honey into the pot. Stir well.
3. Boil for an hour. Add half of the bittering hops at the 15 minute mark, the other half at 30 minute mark, then the aroma hops at the 60 minute mark.
4. Set aside and let stand for 15 minutes.
5. Place 2 gallons of chilled water into the primary fermenter and add the hot wort into it. Top with more water to total 5 gallons if necessary. Place into an ice bath to cool down to 70-80˚.
6. Activate dry yeast in 1 cup of sterilized water at 75-90˚ for fifteen minutes. Pitch yeast into the fermenter. Fill airlock halfway with water. Ferment at room temp (64-68&#730 for 3-4 days.
7. Siphon over to a secondary glass fermenter for another 4-7 days.
8. To bottle, make a priming syrup on the stove with 1 cup sterile water and 3/4 cup priming sugar, bring to a boil for five minutes. Pour the mixture into an empty bottling bucket. Siphon the beer from the fermenter over it. Distribute priming sugar evenly. Siphon into bottles and cap. Let sit for 1-2 weeks at 75˚.

WHITE HOUSE HONEY ALE
Ingredients
• 2 (3.3 lb) cans light malt extract
• 1 lb light dried malt extract
• 12 oz crushed amber crystal malt
• 8 oz Bisquit Malt
• 1 lb White House Honey
• 1 1/2 oz Kent Goldings Hop Pellets
• 1 1/2 oz Fuggles Hop pellets
• 2 tsp gypsum
• 1 pkg Windsor dry ale yeast
• 3/4 cup corn sugar for priming

Directions
1. In a 12 qt pot, steep the grains in a hop bag in 1 1/2 gallons of sterile water at 155 degrees for half an hour. Remove the grains.
2. Add the 2 cans of the malt extract and the dried extract and bring to a boil.
3. For the first flavoring, add the 1 1/2 oz Kent Goldings and 2 tsp of gypsum. Boil for 45 minutes.
4. For the second flavoring, add the 1/2 oz Fuggles hop pellets at the last minute of the boil.
5. Add the honey and boil for 5 more minutes.
6. Add 2 gallons chilled sterile water into the primary fermenter and add the hot wort into it. Top with more water to total 5 gallons. There is no need to strain.
7. Pitch yeast when wort temperature is between 70-80˚. Fill airlock halfway with water.
8. Ferment at 68-72˚ for about seven days.
9. Rack to a secondary fermenter after five days and ferment for 14 more days.
10. To bottle, dissolve the corn sugar into 2 pints of boiling water for 15 minutes. Pour the mixture into an empty bottling bucket. Siphon the beer from the fermenter over it. Distribute priming sugar evenly. Siphon into bottles and cap. Let sit for 2 to 3 weeks at 75˚.

 

[Brundoggie]

OK, so I brewed up a batch of the White House Honey Porter and thought I’d give a review:

 

[tchamber]

Brewed the extract version of the Honey Ale 3 days ago. OG was 1.062. Really vigorous fermentation the first 24 hours or so. Airlock bubbles stopped today, took a SG and it is 1.018. Nice golden color and tastes good. A bit of a slightly bitter aftertaste but I suspect that will go away with conditioning.

Plan to rack this to secondary mid-next week.

 

[Netflyer]

Another thing, the porter recipe says 10 HBU's bittering hops and 1/2 oz Hallertaur... I know that to figure out how much hops to use to get to 10 HBU is just 10 / Alpha Acid = # Oz hops ... but, the question is... what kind of hops? Hallertaur if I was makin' a lager perhaps but, er... um... I realize there are many Porter styles but primarily the use of English hops like EKG or Fuggles come to mind... So the question is, which hops for bittering?
And of course I will convert this to all grain before attempting, just subbing English Pale Ale Malt or US two-row for the LME... and NOT boil the honey ;p

 

[Netflyer]

Im curious to try this. Would it make more sense to add the honey when you are cooling your wort to room temp? Say in the 100 to 110 range so that it still breaks down but not get rid of the honey flavor?

I'm gonna go with this method and at this temp myself...

 

[passedpawn]

I'm gonna go with this method and at this temp myself...

I guess I'm repeating myself, but if you are using unpasteurized honey you should boil it briefly, say 5 minutes. Unpasteurized honey contains bacteria and wild yeast.

If it's storebought honey that you think has been pasteurized, just open the container and heat it in a pan of hot water until is is very fluid, then dump into your pot. Heating isn't necessary here except to get all that goodness out of it's container.

[edit]

You cannot lump honey (even raw, just filtered honey) into the same group as other post-boil additions. You also need to have a different mentality when making mead compared with brewing beer. Very different processes/methods are used between them.

OK, I looked through my Designing Great Beers book and here's the exact quote (pg. 27). Ray Daniels probably knows beer, I'll bet he has a good reason for saying this (besides common sense, which is what I rely on most times).

Whatever you do, don't add unpastuerized honey directly to your cool wort -- you will have problems if you do.

 

[Netflyer]

Roger that passed pawn ...

 

[Netflyer]

White House Honey Porter
American Amber Ale
Type: All Grain Date: 9/14/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal Brewer:
Boil Size: 7.26 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Russ's Equipment
End of Boil Volume 6.76 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal Est Mash Efficiency 85.1 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs 0.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 73.2 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.1 %
12.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.1 %
6.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.0 %
3.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.5 %
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 6 13.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 11.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Nottingham (Danstar #-) [23.66 ml] Yeast 9 -
1 lbs Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 10 8.1 %

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.059 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.059 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.2 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.4 %
Bitterness: 25.1 IBUs Calories: 196.2 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 20.6 SRM

Mash Profile
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 12 lbs 5.8 oz
Sparge Water: 5.32 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 14.20 qt of water at 167.1 F 155.0 F 60 min
Sparge Step: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.57gal, 3.75gal) of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).

Carbonation and Storage
Carbonation Type: Bottle Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Pressure/Weight: 3.93 oz Carbonation Used: Bottle with 3.93 oz Corn Sugar
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 70.0 F Age for: 30.00 days
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Storage Temperature: 65.0 F

 

[Netflyer]

Converted the White House Honey Porter recipe to All Grain. They called for 10 HBU's of 'bittering hops' I'm going with East Kent Goldings or Fuggles considering they didn't say anything but the type... feel free to play here just remember to 10 HBU's divide 10 by the alpha acid of your hops and that equals the amount of ounces of bittering hops you want to use... or close enough ;p

White House Honey Porter
American Amber Ale
Type: All Grain Date: 9/14/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal Brewer:
Boil Size: 7.26 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Russ's Equipment
End of Boil Volume 6.76 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal Est Mash Efficiency 85.1 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs 0.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 73.2 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.1 %
12.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.1 %
6.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.0 %
3.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.5 %
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 6 13.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 11.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Nottingham (Danstar #-) [23.66 ml] Yeast 9 -
1 lbs Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 10 8.1 %

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.059 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.059 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.2 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.4 %
Bitterness: 25.1 IBUs Calories: 196.2 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 20.6 SRM

Mash Profile
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 12 lbs 5.8 oz
Sparge Water: 5.32 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 14.20 qt of water at 167.1 F 155.0 F 60 min
Sparge Step: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.57gal, 3.75gal) of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).

Carbonation and Storage
Carbonation Type: Bottle Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Pressure/Weight: 3.93 oz Carbonation Used: Bottle with 3.93 oz Corn Sugar
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 70.0 F Age for: 30.00 days
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Storage Temperature: 65.0 F - I will go with Single stage 21 day primary then let it sit a week in a c.keg at room temp, then put the gas on for 2 more weeks..

The original recipe calls to put the honey in at the start of the boil... HBT folks know better... put it in after the wort is cooled to at least 110 if you like the taste of honey... any hotter and you will denature the good honey-ness... there is disagreement on whether or not you should boil unpasturized honey... but the many mead folks seem to think all honey is safe and since they play with it more than I I'll take their word for it

 

[bob1852]

OK, I looked through my Designing Great Beers book and here's the exact quote (pg. 27). Ray Daniels probably knows beer, I'll bet he has a good reason for saying this (besides common sense, which is what I rely on most times).

What problems does he cite?

I can cite plenty of medical studies that show honey is not an conducive environment for growth or reproduction of bacteria or yeast. Sure, they are present in low numbers in some honeys, but that's about it.

There are some cool studies showing that honey can even kill antibiotic resistant strains of Staph aureus.

I don't know of any mead makers that have had any problems making mead with room temperature water and honey.

 

[terrapinj]

What problems does he cite?

I can cite plenty of medical studies that show honey is not an conducive environment for growth or reproduction of bacteria or yeast. Sure, they are present in low numbers in some honeys, but that's about it.

There are some cool studies showing that honey can even kill antibiotic resistant strains of Staph aureus.

I don't know of any mead makers that have had any problems making mead with room temperature water and honey.

since the honey is diluted and only a small portion of the wort couldn't it pose a risk for infecting the wort if it's unpasteurized and contains wild yeast/bacteria?

just because they can't thrive in pure honey doesn't mean the yeast/bacteria couldn't grow in the wort.

i'm sure this would pose more of a threat adding it after the wort has cooled and before active fermentation has taken off

per BYO http://www.byo.com/stories/article/indices/38-ingredients/325-brewing-with-honey

Owing to its low water content, honey is very stable. Its microorganisms are dormant until they access an appropriate medium, such as your wort, where they have the potential to spoil your beer. Honey also contains various enyzmes that, if not denatured by heat, could go to work in your fermenting wort, resulting in a beer that’s drier than you might have intended.

 

[passedpawn]

What problems does he cite?

I can cite plenty of medical studies that show honey is not an conducive environment for growth or reproduction of bacteria or yeast. Sure, they are present in low numbers in some honeys, but that's about it.

There are some cool studies showing that honey can even kill antibiotic resistant strains of Staph aureus.

I don't know of any mead makers that have had any problems making mead with room temperature water and honey.

I've seen and read a ton on the anti-bacterial properties of honey. Ray glances over the topic in a sidebar, just mentioning that bacteria exists in it. But if you go to the National Honey Board, you can find all sorts of very useful information. Check out the following short paper, especially on page 2 Honey's Effect on Beer and then the subsequent How to Use Honey in the Homebrewing Process. They propose an ideal, but unrealistic, pasteurization process. I think that boiling for a few minutes is a good compromise.

http://www.honey.com/images/downloads/home_brew.pdf

 

[bob1852]

since the honey is diluted and only a small portion of the wort couldn't it pose a risk for infecting the wort if it's unpasteurized and contains wild yeast/bacteria?

just because they can't thrive in pure honey doesn't mean the yeast/bacteria couldn't grow in the wort.

i'm sure this would pose more of a threat adding it after the wort has cooled and before active fermentation has taken off

Yes, if you wanted several days to pitch yeast, it may be an issue, I guess.

I just can't find any solid claims of infection by using honey poured into cooled must or wort. I'll for sure eat crow if they're out there.

I'd be more concerned about scorching honey by pouring it either into a boiling kettle on heat, or even pouring into a hot bottomed kettle and winding up with a different flavor from burnt honey.

 

[bob1852]

I've seen and read a ton on the anti-bacterial properties of honey. Ray glances over the topic in a sidebar, just mentioning that bacteria exists in it. But if you go to the National Honey Board, you can find all sorts of very useful information. Check out the following short paper, especially on page 2 Honey's Effect on Beer and then the subsequent How to Use Honey in the Homebrewing Process. They propose an ideal, but unrealistic, pasteurization process. I think that boiling for a few minutes is a good compromise.

http://www.honey.com/images/downloads/home_brew.pdf

Thanks for the link, pp.

I guess I've just been lucky all these years with mead, though I guess wine yeasts may out-compete wild yeasts better than beer yeasts?

 

[passedpawn]

Thanks for the link, pp.

I guess I've just been lucky all these years with mead, though I guess wine yeasts may out-compete wild yeasts better than beer yeasts?

No idea. I've made mead from farm-fresh honey without any issue at all.

Honey has a very low pH ( < 4.0 !) , so in mead, which is mostly honey, the pH likely inhibits the growth of bacteria.

Also, I have made beer with a honey addition and the honey was very noticeable. I've still got bottles of that beer... I'm going to cool one right now. The recipe is in my recipe pulldown if anyone is interested in a honey chamomile wheat beer.

 

[Netflyer]

Ok, lemme throw this in ... so Pasteurization is boiling right? So pasteurized honey is already boiled and we have no problem using that in the cooling or cooled wort right?

So if we take unpasteurized honey and boil it, aren't we just pasteurizing it and ending up with the same 'type' of finished honey product to add to the beer as we have with already pasteurized honey?