Whirlpool issues - I need more power captain...

[ryanryates]

OK folks, I've recently upgraded to a half barrel system (stout tanks) and I'm having trouble with my post boil whirlpool. I am using the tangential input on the boil kettle, pumping / circulating through my chiller. With a 15 gallon batch , I cant seem to get a whirlpool going.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[ryanryates]

Should have mentioned I'm using a march pump.

 

[ten80]

Do you have the largest-possible diameter fittings and valves to go with your 1/2" diameter tubing and is the tubing as short as possible? Some so-called 1/2" ball valves and hose barbs are not "full port" and cause quite a restriction. Restriction on the output side is most deleterious to your output flow rate.

I get a pretty good whirlpool going with 13 gallons in my 15 gallon kettle using a regular march pump. At least enough to create a hop cone in the middle of my kettle with my 50 ft immersion chiller present.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Where is the chiller in the circuit? I whirlpool with a similar setup and no chiller and then chill inline to the fermenter.

 

[ryanryates]

Do you have the largest-possible diameter fittings and valves to go with your 1/2" diameter tubing and is the tubing as short as possible? Some so-called 1/2" ball valves and hose barbs are not "full port" and cause quite a restriction. Restriction on the output side is most deleterious to your output flow rate.

I get a pretty good whirlpool going with 13 gallons in my 15 gallon kettle using a regular march pump. At least enough to create a hop cone in the middle of my kettle with my 50 ft immersion chiller present.

OK, to clarify - the valves on the new kettle are full port tri-clamp valves which should be solid. The input and output valves on the pumps may be questionable as they are my old brass 1/2 npt valves that I've had for over ten years. On a 10 gallon batch I had no issue with flow. It seems the 15-16 gallons in a half barrel batch may just be too much mass.

I will look into replacing the ball valves on the pumps and see what happens.

 

[ryanryates]

Where is the chiller in the circuit? I whirlpool with a similar setup and no chiller and then chill inline to the fermenter.

In terms of the circuit, I run silicone hose from kettle to march pump, march pump to plate chiller, plate chiller to tangential input on kettle. Like I mentioned earlier, I do not have a flow issue when its a smaller batch (10 gallons) - only when I bump up to 15+.

I may look at replacing the old brass ball valves on the pump as the earlier comments suggested they may not be full port.

 

[aangel]

try the setup *without* the pump valves (just use 15g water) and see if you've got enough juice to whirlpool.

 

[BrunDog]

You may need a bit of a restriction at the output to create a nozzle which will increase whirlpool velocity.

-BD

 

[Trillium]

Use a spoon to get it started. You just need to keep it spinning and it doesn't need spin very fast.

 

[JonW]

Use a spoon to get it started. You just need to keep it spinning and it doesn't need spin very fast.

^^^ THIS ^^^.

While getting restrictions out of your system is important, you can likely still get it going by starting the whirlpool manually. Using something like a mash paddle you can get a serious whirlpool going in about 10 seconds.

 

[ten80]

Huh, hadn't thought of that. Will have to try "jump starting" my whirlpool with a spoon next time and see if the pump will then maintain a stronger whirlpool. Great idea.

 

[Trillium]

LOL, I should have mentioned that I also have a tangential inlet stout tank.

 

[ryanryates]

Thanks folks, before I start replacing (upgrading) my valves I'll give the mash paddle trick a try. Hoping this will work as I can get a good whirlpool on a 10 gallon batch - just issues with the 15+.

 

[aangel]

Brulosopher's pretty much shown that whirlpooling to reduce trub might not be worth the effort. Maybe it doesn't matte?

 

[andrewmaixner]

Brulosopher's pretty much shown that whirlpooling to reduce trub might not be worth the effort. Maybe it doesn't matte?

there can still be reasons to reduce trub, such as the amount of beer you can fit into the fermenter while retaining headspace and still getting a full 5Gal out of it at the end. If using a lot of pellet hops, they can take up a log of space in the bottom of the fermenter.
(Personally I just bump up my mash and boil volume by a gallon so I can leave an inch+ of wet solids in my kettle without trying to whirl)

 

[Riot]

The above is pretty much the only reason I worry about keeping trub in the kettle. My fermentation buckets are only so large and I want to maximise the amount of clear beer I can get out if one at the end. Especially with really hoppy beers you can lose a lot of volume to solids.

 

[augiedoggy]

Its easy enough to pull the valves and just look through them when open.... if the opening is the full 1/2" they are full flow... if the opening is smaller there's a restriction... I actually had better luck whirlpooling when I restricted the exit port on the whirlpool arm which increased pressure and velocity... but that was with small 24v dc pumps and 7gallons of wort.. I diid discover that gradual bends and larger diameter plumbing up to the actual exit port helps dramatically though...