Which type of smoke should I add to my Wee Heavy?

[Northern_Brewer]

But if the definition of Wee Heavy doesn't include smoke, you can still just call it Smoked Wee Heavy and be fine/accurate.

There comes a point where you're just so far removed from the original, very specific, thing, that the words just become meaningless - you might as well call it a smoked bock, or smoked barleywine, or whatever.

Imagine if I as a Brit came to New England promoting my delicious New England clam chowder - with a twist, it's got tomatoes in it! I'd be laughed out of town. There comes a point where it's just not a New England clam chowder any more. Just call it something else, something new.

One of my favorite "scotch ales" is made by Hop Haus, in Fitchburg, WI -- called Plaid Panther -- it's definitely got some peat lurking in the background...

Given what Wisconsin seems to have done to the kringle, forgive me if I'm sceptical of their authority to opine on authenticity in matters of European food and drink....

[hint - Scottish beer never used peat, the breweries and main centres of population are hundreds of miles from where the peat bogs are. Trust me, that's a journey I know well...]

 

[TyTanium]

Hey it's what we do as Americans. Take European things and make them our own. For better or for worse. I for one love those Racine, WI kringles, even if they are just hydrogenated soybean oil abominations.

Also if you follow American politics/culture these days it's trendy to just make up names for things

Of course factually I agree with everything you said.

 

[AlexKay]

Next topic: what kind of smoke should I use in my kringle pastry stout?

 

[GoodTruble]

There comes a point where you're just so far removed from the original, very specific, thing, that the words just become meaningless - you might as well call it a smoked bock, or smoked barleywine, or whatever.

Well, file your complaint with the American Homebrewer's Association......

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/smoked-wee-heavy/

 

[dmtaylor]

Given what Wisconsin seems to have done to the kringle, forgive me if I'm sceptical of their authority to opine on authenticity in matters of European food and drink....

[hint - Scottish beer never used peat, the breweries and main centres of population are hundreds of miles from where the peat bogs are. Trust me, that's a journey I know well...]

Most Wisconsin kringles suck pretty bad. However, I've probably eaten about 10 kilos of this one in the last 10 years:

https://unclemikesbakeshoppe.com/
FWIW, while I know the Scottish yeasts supposedly are a source of faint hints of smoky phenols... I have on occasion resorted to adding 0.5 oz (14g) peat smoked malt to a 5 gallon batch. It's often not even detectable, but if it ever is, it's waaaaaay off in the background.

But overall, I tend to agree: We shouldn't be adding smoked malts to our Scottish ales. It's wrong.

But trust me on that Uncle Mike's kringle... holy crap is it ever excellent!

 

[TheMadKing]

Having just come back from Scotland, i can confirm that no beers there have smoke in them. Surprisingly only about half the whisky's even have smoke in them.

I also brewed a Scottish export before going and tried several American versions then tried some 80 and 90 shillings over there. It was readily apparent that American versions are much more strongly flavored than European ones.

For example if an American brews a beer and the beer style calls for bready malt with a hint of caramel and earthy hops, you're likely to get a beer with super rich malt flavor strong in melanoidins and crystal malt and whirlpool hopped with a good earthy hop for lots of flavor.

If you take that same description and brew it like a European brewer it's going to taste almost neutral with base malt being the primary flavor and everything else just very subtle balanced accents and the hops are barely noticable.

In general old world examples tend to be better balanced, very subtle, and very easy to drink

 

[Miraculix]

Having just come back from Scotland, i can confirm that no beers there have smoke in them. Surprisingly only about half the whisky's even have smoke in them.

I also brewed a Scottish export before going and tried several American versions then tried some 80 and 90 shillings over there. It was readily apparent that American versions are much more strongly flavored than European ones.

For example if an American brews a beer and the beer style calls for bready malt with a hint of caramel and earthy hops, you're likely to get a beer with super rich malt flavor strong in melanoidins and crystal malt and whirlpool hopped with a good earthy hop for lots of flavor.

If you take that same description and brew it like a European brewer it's going to taste almost neutral with base malt being the primary flavor and everything else just very subtle balanced accents and the hops are barely noticable.

In general old world examples tend to be better balanced, very subtle, and very easy to drink

100% on point.

 

[pvtpublic]

+1 @TheMadKing completely nailed. Everything we do here in the states seems to be like a Texas version of everything. A heavy hand in measuring ingredients, but lacking finesse in balance and drinkability. That's a bit of a blanket statement, I know. But, there are many brewers here that nail styles quite well.

 

[TyTanium]

I'm thankful for Texas versions of things. Big guns, big smokers full of beef, and giant hop-forward beers always pushing style boundaries.

There are quite a few pecan/mesquite/oak smoked beers down here that are excellent. I happen to think a strong scotch ale base fits those really well. Nuts to style guidelines. If you want to smoke some malt and add it, DO IT. Authentic and true to style? Heck no. But absolutely tasty.

I also agree with TheMadKing. I've never found smoke in a beer in Scotland, not even on Islay. And he's right on whisky too, it's generally just the Islays that get peat, and some of them don't even (and they are amazing, btw...unpeated Islays). Incidentally I was just at a brewery bar in Inverness and they had a bunch of American styles. Not great...they were too balanced, too subtle. But the room temp hand pump cask ale at the local pub down the street was perfect. There are some great threads on here how to brew those authentically. Traditional UK cask ales are soul food beers. Smoke is absolutely out of place.

So OP - where is that kringle beer recipe. Also dmtaylor I need to seek out some Uncle Mike's - thanks. At least something is going right in Green Bay

 

[pvtpublic]

I'm thankful for Texas versions of things. Big guns, big smokers full of beef, and giant hop-forward beers always pushing style boundaries.

I'm not talking them down at all. And I agree 100%

Nuts to style guidelines. If you want to smoke some malt and add it, DO IT. Authentic and true to style? Heck no. But absolutely tasty.

Guidelines are like dictionaries, it sets a definition to styles. It's a means of having a base of communication, so that we know what it is that we're talking about. I also agree, brew what you want, however you want. You don't need to adhere to the guidelines. But when you have your final product, you can use the guidelines to communicate what that beer is. You wouldn't call a stout a pilsner, just because you wanted a pilsner that looks, smells, and tastes exactly like a stout. An extreme example, I know. But I'm illustrating my point.

 

[TyTanium]

Good points PVT. I agree. There's a lot of calling things what they aren't these days and I'm not a fan.

 

[AlexKay]

Kringle Stout (5 gallons)

6 lbs. English pale ale
3 lbs. pecan-smoked
0.5 lbs. Fawcett medium crystal
0.5 lbs. Briess extra special
0.5 lbs. Simpsons GNO
0.5 lbs. chocolate rye
0.75 lbs. lactose

3 g Magnum (~15% AA) @ 60
1 ounce ground cinnamon, in "cinnamon stand," 10 min @ 160 F

Lallemand Nottingham

More of a milk stout with something (several things) extra, but I bet this would actually be pretty good.

 

[pvtpublic]

What's the mash temp?

 

[AlexKay]

152 F, single infusion. Could mash lower; the lactose will be the main story as regards unfermentable sugar no matter what you do.

Could also swap in Simpsons DRC for the Extra Special in order to stick to more British malts.

 

[TyTanium]

That actually looks pretty great. HBT never disappoints. Cheers Alex!

 

[dmtaylor]

Also dmtaylor I need to seek out some Uncle Mike's - thanks. At least something is going right in Green Bay

Indeed! You will not be sorry.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm not talking them down at all. And I agree 100%

Guidelines are like dictionaries, it sets a definition to styles. It's a means of having a base of communication, so that we know what it is that we're talking about. I also agree, brew what you want, however you want. You don't need to adhere to the guidelines. But when you have your final product, you can use the guidelines to communicate what that beer is. You wouldn't call a stout a pilsner, just because you wanted a pilsner that looks, smells, and tastes exactly like a stout. An extreme example, I know. But I'm illustrating my point.

May i add to the list that with "style guideline" preferably the way the style is brewed in it's original country should be meant? And maybe not how some bjcp people think the original country's people should brew it....

 

[pvtpublic]

May i add to the list that with "style guideline" preferably the way the style is brewed in it's original country should be meant? And maybe not how some bjcp people think the original country's people should brew it....

You nailed it! However, your pallet goes dead after a few. I had to judge 2 flights of märzen, and then 2 flights of hazies, and I'm sure that I did not give accurate notes at the end. In fact, I think I was slurring my handwriting a little, too. I picked up heavy DMS early in the first flight, and it screwed me up, I was picking it out on damn near every märzen after that. Fortunately, we weren't using BJCP scoresheets, so I didn't have to write much. It was for a beerfest in Missoula, MT and was meant more for picking a winner than anything.

 

[AlexKay]

That actually looks pretty great. HBT never disappoints. Cheers Alex!

I should clarify that I’ve used cinnamon in Americanized wits, and cinnamon at that quantity, while above the taste threshold, is well below the “whoa, cinnamon!” level. You taste something, but it doesn’t necessarily even present as cinnamon.

 

[TheMadKing]

I'm thankful for Texas versions of things. Big guns, big smokers full of beef, and giant hop-forward beers always pushing style boundaries.

There are quite a few pecan/mesquite/oak smoked beers down here that are excellent. I happen to think a strong scotch ale base fits those really well. Nuts to style guidelines. If you want to smoke some malt and add it, DO IT. Authentic and true to style? Heck no. But absolutely tasty.

I also agree with TheMadKing. I've never found smoke in a beer in Scotland, not even on Islay. And he's right on whisky too, it's generally just the Islays that get peat, and some of them don't even (and they are amazing, btw...unpeated Islays). Incidentally I was just at a brewery bar in Inverness and they had a bunch of American styles. Not great...they were too balanced, too subtle. But the room temp hand pump cask ale at the local pub down the street was perfect. There are some great threads on here how to brew those authentically. Traditional UK cask ales are soul food beers. Smoke is absolutely out of place.

So OP - where is that kringle beer recipe. Also dmtaylor I need to seek out some Uncle Mike's - thanks. At least something is going right in Green Bay

I was just in Inverness!

Which pub?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'd guess the brewery bar was Black Isle - who are great, particularly their barrel-aged stuff.

As a Brit I don't think it's possible to be "too balanced"!!!

 

[TyTanium]

Black Isle! That's the one. Great spot. Was not expecting a place like that in northern Scotland. Just didn't love their hoppy offerings. I pretty much stuck to cask ales/bitters the whole time. I do recall a few barrel-aged winners too.

I love a west coast IPA or Texas pecan smoked beer as much as anyone, but man those UK pub bitters are something special. I can't get enough.

 

[dwightr8]

All this talk of smoke has me excited, so I rummaged through my hoard and came up with these two. Chilled to 35F, not a bunch of warm Scotch ales, but ice cold lagers. Which should I drink? Both?
View attachment 785818

Love the old Olympia opener. Haven't seen one of those for a while.

 

[bracconiere]

3 g Magnum (~15% AA) @ 60

i want to ask what the point of adding 1 pellet of hops was?

 

[AlexKay]

i want to ask what the point of adding 1 pellet of hops was?

Hey, that’s about 10 IBU!

I usually do small batches, 1.25 and 2.5 gallons, with the occasional 0.25-gallon batch thrown in. Your average hop pellet weighs about 0.2 g, and I’ve certainly been in the position of counting them out on some of those smaller batches.