Where's The Honey?

[rodwha]

I revised my honey wheat recipe and was finally able to drink some yesterday. What I found was disappointing. It tasted good, but was missing the nice honey flavor I was after.

I was told my original recipe fell short because I needed to mash the honey malt and add more honey. I "mashed" my grains in a sort of steeping manner for an hour while battling the temp constantly. My temps were mostly in the middle but ran from 147-159*. I had to add about 8 oz of extra water to cover grains.

4 lbs Briess Bavarian wheat DME
1 lb Briess extra light DME
1/2 lb Gambrinus honey malt
1 1/2 lbs honey
WLP 320
5.3 gal batch

I added the honey 1 week after initial fermentation as was suggested to me, and used honey for priming.

What am I not doing right? I'm looking for something similar to Blue Moon's honey wheat.

 

[rodwha]

I have already ordered my ingredients for my next couple of batches. Among them is a honey blonde I wanted to try (figuring my honey wheat would have been great). Now I need to figure out what I'm going to need to make this good.

4 lbs Briess pilsen LME
2 lbs Briess Bavarian DME
1/2 lb Gambrinus honey malt (leftover)
4 oz extra light DME (starter)
2 oz Liberty 3.9% @ 45 mins
WLP 001
1/2 lb honey (priming)
2.9 avg boil/4.8 gal yield

I have ~2 lbs of honey on hand. What can I do to give this a honey taste?

I have a 2 gal Igloo water jug that I have intended on trying as a BIAB mash tun. Maybe I can keep the temp better.

 

[HootHootHoot]

Honey won't leave a honey flavor. I leaves more of a clove flavor. The sugars are fermented, which takes out the honey flavor. Honey malt makes the beer very sweet. Furthermore, honey malt can convert its own sugars but it's not very good at it.

Not sure what to advise you on... You seem to have too much honey malt to begin with (general rule with honey malt is no more than 10-15% of the grist).

 

[rodwha]

I had been to a homebrew event and tried a honey wheat. It was great! Kinda like the Blue Moon honey wheat. He stated that they added the honey after fermentation began to die down which was to help maintain the honey taste. I don't think they used honey malt.

If I have used a bit too much honey malt why doesn't this beer taste like it has much honey in it? If I were to use more honey malt next time should it give me more of a honey taste?

Could it be that my temps were just not spot on and it didn't do as well as it should have? It seems very similar to the way it was when I steeped the honey malt. Just a fleeting taste...

 

[rodwha]

What would mini mashing crystal 10-15 along with the honey malt do for this honey blonde?

 

[HootHootHoot]

What would mini mashing crystal 10-15 along with the honey malt do for this honey blonde?

Honey malt is similar to crystal, so it will sweeten it up, but more sugar like sweetness, not like a honey sweetness

Adding honey near the end of fermentation may be your best bet to get the honey taste you want. But it may jump start fermentation again.

You could try cold crashing your beer once you add the honey to keep the yeast at bay.


After you wrote you wanted to prime with honey I found this:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/honey-bottle-prime-98076/

 

[TopherM]

Honey in itself obviously ferments out completely, like everyone else has said. HOWEVER, the FLORALS that come from the nectors the honey was made from will stick with the beer. I always add honey at flameout, and buy the most floral varieties I can from the local whole foods store. Buying your typical honey bear at the grocery isn't going to add anything in the way of honey flavor. The ones at the whole foods store mostly specify the floral variety that the honey was made from. Orange blossom varieties are pretty consistant when it comes to flavoring a beer. I do always compliment honey with honey malt. I typically add about 1 lb of honey and 0.5-0.75 lbs of honey malt per 10 lbs of grain, and will only only only add honey to styles that still taste good on the dry side, especially wheats or APAs.

Hope some of that helps!!

 

[HootHootHoot]

Your issue could be the temps. Also, honey malt is best when mashed with a base grain. Like I said, it can convert its own sugars but is much better with a base malt to help. You could try a mini mash with some base and honey malt.

If you have no sweetness to your beer, then the honey malt wasn't converted. Lookmat your gravity readings, that will tell the whole story. If its off by a lot then the honey malt wasn't converted and you lost all that flavor.

 

[eastoak]

with a 1/2 lb of honey malt i don't know why you don't have a honey bomb on your hands. i find 4 oz of honey malt to be almost too much.

 

[iambeer]

You'd probably get more of a honey taste from adding raw wildflower honey and a little chamomile or another sweet smelling wildflower... as well as sweet malts.

 

[rodwha]

It did jump a secondary fermentation off.

The idea of cold crashing when adding honey sounds interesting. I can certainly get the temps lower, but I don't know if I can get them low enough being that I use tubs of water and frozen water bottles.

My OG readings are typically much higher than Hopville states. More like the same number but at room temp. Since I added honey midway I'm not certain as to the overall gravity, but I got nearly the OG reading w/o having added the honey (adjusted reading) and reached the FG w/o adjusting for temp. So I'd guess that it fermented out fairly well.

Obviously I should have had the brewer go into more detail about when exactly he added his honey. I gathered it was ~ a week. He stated once fermentation dies down. Maybe I should have waited another week?

I suppose I'll need to try mashing with some base grains.

My honey, I believe, was some generic stuff from Wal-Mart or something.

 

[rodwha]

How much base grain should i use with 1/2 lb of honey malt?

 

[HootHootHoot]

How much base grain should i use with 1/2 lb of honey malt?

1 lb of grain = .75 liuid extract = .60 dry extract

I can't say how much since I never did partial mashes, but I would think 1/4-1/2 would be plenty. Just subtract from your extract though so you don't add too much.

 

[HootHootHoot]

It did jump a secondary fermentation off.

The idea of cold crashing when adding honey sounds interesting. I can certainly get the temps lower, but I don't know if I can get them low enough being that I use tubs of water and frozen water bottles.

My OG readings are typically much higher than Hopville states. More like the same number but at room temp. Since I added honey midway I'm not certain as to the overall gravity, but I got nearly the OG reading w/o having added the honey (adjusted reading) and reached the FG w/o adjusting for temp. So I'd guess that it fermented out fairly well.

Obviously I should have had the brewer go into more detail about when exactly he added his honey. I gathered it was ~ a week. He stated once fermentation dies down. Maybe I should have waited another week?

I suppose I'll need to try mashing with some base grains.

My honey, I believe, was some generic stuff from Wal-Mart or something.

Yeah you would need to get the temps down to refrigerator like temps to really get the yeast to go dormant.

Or if you want to get real crazy: add they honey after fermentation is done, pasteurize it to kill the yeast, keg it, force carb, bottle from the keg. Could be a goal for you down the road.

Hopefully you can get your target honey flavor. I think you're on the right track with combining honey and honey malt. Play with it and see what is too much, try the 1/2 lb and see how sweet it tastes. You may not have to mash it with base malt if you're getting good OG readings. You could always just steep it all

I loved the blue moon honey. Tried a sample in the store and went to buy a 12 pack- and I had already bought 3 cases for a party

 

[rodwha]

I just wish their bottles weren't twist offs! It keeps me from buying it often.
I don't keg. Too fancy for me! I'd like to eventually though...
That guy from the homebrew event that made that honey wheat gave us his number. Gonna have to call him up and see when we can go over... Should have done it already, but figured I could make it work. I need friends that brew though. BMC drinkers aren't as much fun!

 

[charley]

My cousin gave me a bunch of homemade jalapeño honey... Delicious honey. Tempted to play with it in a batch... Anybody ever tried it?

 

[HootHootHoot]

I just wish their bottles weren't twist offs! It keeps me from buying it often.
I don't keg. Too fancy for me! I'd like to eventually though...
That guy from the homebrew event that made that honey wheat gave us his number. Gonna have to call him up and see when we can go over... Should have done it already, but figured I could make it work. I need friends that brew though. BMC drinkers aren't as much fun!

Took me two and a half years to finally get my buddy into it, he always wanted to but his SWMBO wouldn't let him. He has a carboy now, so it's a start.

Good idea to call him. Keep me updated, I'd like to know his process and give it a try. I love honey beer (leinenkugel honeyweiss is my favorite).

 

[HootHootHoot]

My cousin gave me a bunch of homemade jalapeño honey... Delicious honey. Tempted to play with it in a batch... Anybody ever tried it?

You coud try a Honey blonde ale and add it to see. There's a microbrew that makes a jalapeño blonde in Wisconsin. I forget the brand

 

[rodwha]

"Good idea to call him. Keep me updated, I'd like to know his process and give it a try."
Will do.