When to go from Primary to Secondary (If at all)

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I hate to be 'that guy', but I just want to clarify something before I waste my time. I'm doing a Wit, it's been in primary for nine days. I took a hydrometer reading last night, I'll take one again tonight. There's still activity in the airlock, but if everything I've gathered is correct, that shouldn't matter if the hydrometer says it's done, correct?

With a Wit, how worth it is it to rack to a secondary? If fermentation is done, would the recommendation be to rack to secondary, bottle, or let it sit longer?

I really appreciate the help, guys. This site has been very helpful for me with my first batch. Cheers.
 
Pulp Fiction said:
I hate to be 'that guy', but I just want to clarify something before I waste my time. I'm doing a Wit, it's been in primary for nine days. I took a hydrometer reading last night, I'll take one again tonight. There's still activity in the airlock, but if everything I've gathered is correct, that shouldn't matter if the hydrometer says it's done, correct?

With a Wit, how worth it is it to rack to a secondary? If fermentation is done, would the recommendation be to rack to secondary, bottle, or let it sit longer?

I really appreciate the help, guys. This site has been very helpful for me with my first batch. Cheers.
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Putting a Wit in secondary would probably make it worse since one of the main reasons to use a secondary is to clear out the yeast which is exactly what you don't want for a Wit. I'd keep the beer in primary for about three weeks (total) and then bottle it.
 
Just some hard data for the thread: bottled a True Brew Red Ale Yesterday, after sitting in the primary for two months and it tasted fine, and was very clear. This is my longest primary-only beer that is of a moderate strength(4.8%). The carboy sat in a basement at 63deg for the duration. The yeast was fermentis s-33, and stayed in suspension for many weeks. It may be that the disturbance caused by transfering to a secondary helps yeast settle out quicker, but otherwise I'm leaning heavily towards primary only(I do ales only)
 
Is there a difference between "two-stage fermention" and the use of a secondary conditioning vessel? i am brewing a beer that requires 2 stage fermentation. I read up on this and found that you should leave 10-20-% of the fermentation to be done in the secondary? That seems a bit odd.
 
yes. 2-stage are usually very high sg and require a repitching of more yeast after primary fermentation has slowed. I have also done a mead that was a stepped mead that required 3 pitchings. 2stage is different from secondary. secondary is basically just a clearing tank. the yeast will be nearing the end of its attenuation when you go to secondary so you may only lose another .001 or .002 more gravity points
 
I don't have any more yeast to give it. When you do this do you just culture out the yeast and save some for later pitchings? How much yeast would you pitch (or would you repitch at all for a Tripel)? Thanks a heap!
 
OK I have read my way completely through this thread, but I still have one question...

What would be the disadvantage of racking to a clearing vessel before the fermentation is complete? I have a couple of batches that are more than 2 weeks old, and still have a bit of pressure in them and bubble every few minutes. I have not reached my FG of 1.08-1.12. I have racked both to secondaries and still have seen a small bit of action, but the FG is still around 1.14. I'll wait a few weeks and keg them.

Most of the information on this topic says to wait until you are certain that the fermentation is complete before racking to a secondary. I am just curious of what is supposed to happen if you rerack it too soon. Will the fermentation stop in secondary? I wouldn't think so, as plenty of yeast is still present, obviously there is still sugar present, and reracking would inevitably introduce more oxygen, and stir things up a bit. If anything, I would think it would help kick the yeast back into gear...
 
PeteOz77 said:
OK I have read my way completely through this thread, but I still have one question...

What would be the disadvantage of racking to a clearing vessel before the fermentation is complete? I have a couple of batches that are more than 2 weeks old, and still have a bit of pressure in them and bubble every few minutes. I have not reached my FG of 1.08-1.12. I have racked both to secondaries and still have seen a small bit of action, but the FG is still around 1.14. I'll wait a few weeks and keg them.

Most of the information on this topic says to wait until you are certain that the fermentation is complete before racking to a secondary. I am just curious of what is supposed to happen if you rerack it too soon. Will the fermentation stop in secondary? I wouldn't think so, as plenty of yeast is still present, obviously there is still sugar present, and reracking would inevitably introduce more oxygen, and stir things up a bit. If anything, I would think it would help kick the yeast back into gear...
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Sometimes it does- and sometimes it stalls it completely. Usually if it's not finished, it will finish up in the secondary. But if also happens that a slow ferment will completely stall out once it's racked. Your theory is sound- and sometimes that happens. Sometimes not, though! That's why it's better to finish up in the primary- you have a better chance of it finishing up, and leaving it on the yeast cake after fermentation is finished also helps reduce off flavors. The yeast continue to clean up after the fermentation, eating their own waste products (like diacetyl) when they have no more sugars to eat. To me, that's the real advantage of making sure fermentation is finished before moving. It's usually at least 3 days after fermentation is over (often longer) before I rack.
 
Thanks Yooper! Your answer was exactly what I was thinking was the case. I'll make sure to keep the brew in the primary until it's 100% finished before I rack into secondary. The only reason I have started using a secondary is that I am trying to get more of my mates into drinking homebrew (and hopefully making it!)< and it's a hell of a lot easier to convince someone who is skeptical, to try a brew that is crystal clear, rather than a cloudy one.
 
"es. 2-stage are usually very high sg and require a repitching of more yeast after primary fermentation has slowed. I have also done a mead that was a stepped mead that required 3 pitchings. 2stage is different from secondary. secondary is basically just a clearing tank. the yeast will be nearing the end of its attenuation when you go to secondary so you may only lose another .001 or .002 more gravity points"

How would one know if one needed to repitch?

Secondly:
Two Q's: Will be starting a hoegaarden clone soon. Do I need a secondary? And do I need to do a yeast starter?
Thanks
 
I just got through bottling my first two batches. Two guys I work with got me involved with them brewing on homebrew day.

My question is regarding the secondary. These guys didn't do a secondary, went from the primary right to bottles. What can i expect? They recommended bottle conditioning 2-3 weeks...should I wait longer?
 
I you don't go to secondary then you need to at least use a bottling bucket for priming.

You can extend the primary and forego the secondary.

2-3 weeks is the minimum for carbing. It will condition after that.
It's all down to how long you want to wait.

You'll probably find your last bottle is the best.
You learn by your results.
 
I have a 6 1/2 gallon better bottle and I want to use it for a primary fermenter. Is it a necessity to use a blow off hose? can I use an airlock for a 6 1/2 gallon carboy with a 5 gallon batch?

It seems that it leaves as much room as a plastic fermenter.

What do you think?
 
Total noob question regarding racking to my secondary.

I used a sanatized, unused nylon hop bag on the end of my siphon hose to collect any large pieces of sediment while racking, this caused a large foamy head going into the secondary.

Do I need to worry about aeration at this point? Should I dump it or did I not ruin it too much?
 
paulvp said:
Should I dump it or did I not ruin it too much?
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You never dump a beer unless after carbing and conditioning it tastes like satan's anus! (not my analogy)

THere's no way to know until the process is complete if the beer is harmed or not, so rather than dump a possibly good beer, just rdwhahb and let it continue.

It is doubtful you harmed it, there's a lot of theories that the amount of oxygination that would casue damage is actually quite high...but it is never a good idea to have foam when racking...just ry to be careful next time...rack slower.

If you did oxidize your beer it will taste like wet cardboard in a couple months, probably not immediately, so if you drink it before it develops (if it develops) than it won't matter anyway.
 
Thank you for the info. That was the first time I've ever seen that when racking and new immediately it had to do with the nylon sack. Not sure how I'm going to go about filtering out large sediment or hops now though.
 
paulvp said:
Thank you for the info. That was the first time I've ever seen that when racking and new immediately it had to do with the nylon sack. Not sure how I'm going to go about filtering out large sediment or hops now though.
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Filter them out before they go into the fermenter....If you use buckets then get a nylon paint strainer bag that has an elastic band that fits around the bucket...If you ferment in carboy get a large funnel and a collander...

Sanitize everything of course.

If you dry hop there's several solutions to dry hopping without having pieces in the beer on here.
 
Well I'm going to break down and get a carboy for a secondary. When should one transfer to a secondary? When the airlock activity slows? When it completely stops bubbling? When the foam on top falls? When my hydrometer readings are at their final gravity and steady for 3 or more days? Not sure and don't want to mess anything up. I finally did everything right on this batch. It's a dunkel weiss by the way.

Also when I do secondary, how long should I leave it in there? Thanks guys.
 
bobbrewster said:
1. When my hydrometer readings are at their final gravity and steady for 3 or more days?
2. Also when I do secondary, how long should I leave it in there? Thanks guys.
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1. Yes.
2. I think You asked the same question twice. But Id say leave it there for 3 weeks. Then bottle. Then wait another 3 weeks. Can you handle that? Waiting is defiantly the hardest part.

*Read this after you get the second carboy*








There is no rule saying you have to use a secondary. Many on this site dont use one to avoid oxidation etc. I dont because Im lazy. It wont be on the yeast cake long enough for anything bad to happen. I say leave it in your primary for a few weeks then bottle it.

But your going to want another fermenter anyways so you can have more than 1 batch going at a time.
 
Transfer to secondary when your gravity readings have not changed for 3 days or so is the winner. There are potential problems with the other two options. You can basically secondary till its good and aged. Higher alcohol and stronger beers take longer to fully age then smaller, lighter beers. I have aged some smaller ones for just a week or so and my stouts and my belgian strong ales I have aged for a few months before bottling. Most people seem to feel that bulk aging benefits a beer to have better tastes so thats what I do.
 
Secondary is for clearing and aging. Transfer after fermentation is done, which you can determine with your hydrometer. Some would argue that secondary isn't necessary at all, and I'm not sure if I'd stress secondary on a wheat beer regardless, but if you do then give it at least a week or better yet, two. Just make sure fermentation is done.
 
The secondary is really for clearing so you shouldn't rack unless the gravity has reached the yeast's attenuation range.

I always use 75% as a middle range (and the math is easier).

If your OG is 1.050 (or 50) just divide by 4 (the 75%)...so the FG should be 12 (or 1.012).;)
 
So many folks now advocate NOT using a secondary, which I understand. But just one question: If there is something I had intended to add during the secondary, be it hops or something else, can I just open my primary, throw them on top, close it up and let it be? All you wizened folks who've abandoned the secondary, is that what you do? or do you actually use a secondary when you want to add more ingredients at that point?
 
oberon567 said:
So many folks now advocate NOT using a secondary, which I understand. But just one question: If there is something I had intended to add during the secondary, be it hops or something else, can I just open my primary, throw them on top, close it up and let it be? All you wizened folks who've abandoned the secondary, is that what you do? or do you actually use a secondary when you want to add more ingredients at that point?
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That is one of the few reasons I will use a secondary, if I am adding anything to it...I have a friend that makes some fruit beers and meades and adds to the secondary, but then racks to a tertiary to clear....
 
2 questions from a newbie....

1. Is there a time limit that you should adhere to with dry hopping?

2. I have a 6 gallon carboy I was planning on using as a secondary. Will that allow too much oxidation or should I just not worry about it. :)
 
FSumac said:
2 questions from a newbie....

1. Is there a time limit that you should adhere to with dry hopping?

2. I have a 6 gallon carboy I was planning on using as a secondary. Will that allow too much oxidation or should I just not worry about it. :)
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1. usually 5-7 days is the usual amount, longer could impart grassy flavors, but I haven't noticed any.

2. I use 6.5 gallon carboys for about everything. As long as you don't shake them to much you should be fine. Co2 is denser than O2, so it will blanket your brew. There will be Co2 in your brew and it will off-gas when you rack it.
 
Yeah, add them as close to bottling as possible, that way you don't loose the aroma.
 
After 8 days in the primary, I took a FG reading and it was right on, 1.010. I transfered my honey wheat beer to the secondary where I'll let it sit for 2 weeks. Then, I'll rack it into the bottles for 2-3 weeks and drink my first batch of beer! I'm going to give this 1-2-3 method a try. I know wheat beers don't really benefit from a secondary, but I can make another batch in the primary fermenter this way. :D I'm thoroughly enjoying this hobby! :mug: I'm going to make a cherry wheat beer next, probably next Saturday. :ban:
 
orfy said:
The answer is in the FAQ sticky
This is just a quick overview.

The fermenting should take place in the fermenter (Primary).
After the fermentation is finished then it can be transferred to a conditioning/clearing vessel (Secondary). Secondary fermentation vessels are sometimes used when adding fruit after the primary fermentation.
When should this happen?

Fermentation can take any where from 12 hours to 3 months (and more) most "normal" brews would be done in 3 to 10 days. The hydrometer will tell you.
If you want to guess then there are other methods. The one that can not be relied on is the bubbles stop.

Experienced brewers decide themselves when to move and what to do. Every beer is different.
If you are not sure and want an easy rule of thumb for a normal beer then a lot of brewers are happy to stick follow the 1-2-3 rule. 1 week to ferment - 2 weeks clearing/conditioning - 3 weeks to bottle condition.
Other brewers are just happy to leave it in primary for and extended time until it is ready to keg or bottle.

Hope that helps.
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Can you leave it in the primary for the 3 weeks? If you transfer to a secondary, should it be refrigerated? What is the best way to transfer to a secondary? Thanks!
 
Can you leave it in the primary for the 3 weeks?
YES
If you transfer to a secondary, should it be refrigerated?
Normally not. Each style and yeast has a temperature range that the fermentation should be kept within
What is the best way to transfer to a secondary?
Several methods it depends on the equipment you have
 
I usually test the gravity of the beer and if the kraeusen (foam) has settled down significantly. However, I don't do anything until the yeast are done doing their thing. These are the three things I look for.
 
i put a small amount of beer in my hydromitor tube and set it on my counter so iwould not have to get into my ale pail
that way i was able to watch what was going on even though i have no car boy
fermintation was done after about 6 to 7 days( i watched for the hydromiter to reach its lowest point)
i noticed when the femintation stopped the foam on the top of the beer dissapeared
 

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