When to add Lyle's Golden Syrup

[ASantiago]

Hello, Collective!

I'm making a Scottish Export Ale 80/- and the recipe calls for Lyle's Golden Syrup, which I've been able to obtain.

The question is: at what point during the making the wort do I put in the syrup? Do I put it in

1. Before the boil?
2. Immediately upon boiling?
3. Some other time during the boil?
4. At the end of the boil/flameout?
5. Into the fermenter after racking from the kettle?

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated it!

 

[magno]

I like to add syrup, honey, sugar, etc. towards the end of the boil, for 10 to 15 minutes. This will help with hop extraction somewhat, and more significantly will preserve any flavor that the additional sugar has to offer.

 

[14thstreet]

It wasn't an 80/- but I added 2lbs of jaggery sugar to a 5 gallon batch near the end of the boil. What I observed in the final product was a stalled fermentation and a reawakened one in the bottles (gushers). One possible explanation I've heard is that the yeast chewed on the simple sugars first before those produced in the wort and got lazy. Simply adding corn sugar upon bottling, and the additional rousing, caused fermentation to start up again.

I'm not saying that this will happen to you as I'm sure the amount of sugar you are adding is less, but just be aware of that possibility, i.e., use a healthy starter of yeast. Option #6 could be to add the syrup later during fermentation.

 

[solbes]

I always add my sugar additions about 5 minutes from flameout. No worries on contamination, too short of time to carmelize, and too short of time to modify the flavor much (if using amber or D2 syrup).

It might be a good time to try making an invert syrup yourself. Also very easy to do and almost free if you have cane sugar in your cupboard. Try making a 1/4 or 1/2 lb for practice. You can directly compare vs the Lyle's before adding it. Throw the rest into the boil.

 

[ASantiago]

I've heard a variety of approaches for when to put in the syrup, but pretty much all called for doing it while the wort was either boiling or still very hot to kill off any contamination, so I'm inclined to go that route. Nonetheless, I want to hear what forum members have to say about it.

About hop utilization, I'm under the impression that the more sugars in the liquid, the lower the utilization. Is this not correct?

I've also heard about yeast getting used to eating the simple sugars first and the fermentation getting stuck, but I think you are correct in that it depends on the amount of simple sugars in the wort. In my case, I'm putting in one lb of Lyle's syrup, which ends up making up about 9.6% of the grist (according to BrewSmith 2). Hopefully that's below the stuck fermentation threshold.

 

[14thstreet]

ASantiago, I've always been meaning to do this myself but never remembered. To better inform yourself if a fermentation is stuck, ahead of time, do a fast ferment test.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fast_Ferment_Test

At one pound I'm sure you'll be okay. But I know if you are going to bottle, you're kind of stuck with what you have.

 

[MrAverage]

The answer is that it should be added at some point during the boil. The question is when - at the start or near the end?

As others have pointed out, the addition of the sugar at the start of the boil will affect hop utilization - the higher the SG of the wort during the boil, the lower the hop utilization. So to maximize hop utilization, you would want to add it near the end of the boil - like the last 5 minutes or so to make sure that it's sterilized and totally dissolved before flame out.

The next question is does it really matter if your hop utilization if off by a couple of percentage points ? Can you really taste the difference of a couple of IBU's in the finished beer? Probably not.

I guess it really depends on how anal you are about hop utilization and how much sugar you're adding. 2lbs is probably going to make a noticiable differnce in the final product if it's added at the beginning of the boil as opposed to the end. A few ounces of Lyle's is probably not going to make any noticable difference either way. If your a number fanatic, you can use brewing software (or a calculator) to figure out just what the differnce is in the predicted IBU's of the finished beer and make your decision when to add the sugar based on that information.

One final thought: The longer the sugar boils the more opportunity it has to caramelize a little - which might be a nice thing in some beers and not so nice in others. Now with the standard 60 min boils that most home brewers use, there not going to be much caramelization anyway, so it's probably not going to be much of a factor, but you might be able to fool youself into thinking that you can taste the hints of carmel flavor that come from a 60 min boil as opposed to a 5 minute boil. Anyway, Lyle's is going to give you a distinct flavor profile regardless of when you add it.

Another final thought: I'm pretty sure that standard practice in traditional British and Scottish brewing was/is to add the sugars at the start of the boil.

 

[ASantiago]

I guess it really depends on how anal you are about hop utilization and how much sugar you're adding. 2lbs is probably going to make a noticiable differnce in the final product if it's added at the beginning of the boil as opposed to the end. A few ounces of Lyle's is probably not going to make any noticable difference either way. If your a number fanatic, you can use brewing software (or a calculator) to figure out just what the differnce is in the predicted IBU's of the finished beer and make your decision when to add the sugar based on that information.

I do use software, not only because I'm anal, but also because it makes a lot of other things easier. BrewSmith 2 says the difference is, for my recipe, 1 IBU between having the syrup in the boil and not having it at all. It doesn't seem to tell very well in terms of length of time. But that's fine for two reasons: 1) 1 IBU won't make a difference, 2) a Scottish Ale should be malty in any case.

One final thought: The longer the sugar boils the more opportunity it has to caramelize a little - which might be a nice thing in some beers and not so nice in others. Now with the standard 60 min boils that most home brewers use, there not going to be much caramelization anyway, so it's probably not going to be much of a factor, but you might be able to fool youself into thinking that you can taste the hints of carmel flavor that come from a 60 min boil as opposed to a 5 minute boil. Anyway, Lyle's is going to give you a distinct flavor profile regardless of when you add it.

I'm doing a 90 minute boil and caramelization is most definitely welcomed for the Scottish Ale style. But I think I'm getting enough of that without the syrup in, so the plan is to put it in at some point in time between 10 and 5 minutes before flameout.

Another final thought: I'm pretty sure that standard practice in traditional British and Scottish brewing was/is to add the sugars at the start of the boil.

That sure would be nice to know.