When to add amylase enzyme?

[Doobiebrewer]

What I've read is a little confusing. When and how would you add it? If style makes a difference, extract imperial stout.

 

[kh54s10]

I've never added it to anything. I bought some for a stalled high ABV brew that was super sweet but never tried it. I don't know why you would use it unless you had a fermenting problem. I never fully researched it's use for that either.

Will be following to find out why it might be used.

 

[fizzix]

I've been a distiller long before I just recently started brewing beer.

Brewhaus powdered amylase is my go to choice for distilling, and I've tried it in brewing.

It WILL make yeast's job easier, and gain you some efficiency.

The Brewhaus Alpha-Amylase has a temperature range of 152°F to 158°F (teaspoon) application --so apply at (5-gallon) mashing.
The Alpha breaks down long chain sugars to short chains.

The Gluco-Amylase (also a teaspoon) breaks down the short chain sugars and has a room temperature application,
so apply at yeast pitching.

Some observations:
~no flavor impact
~you will likely overshoot your start gravity and may go under your final gravity targets --so more alcohol
~I DO NOT THINK IT'S NECESSARY unless you have a poor/inefficient mashing history, or just experimenting. In which case you
should fix inefficiencies and not waste time and money on amylase. Save it for distilling.

I have run beer recipes with and without amylase on proven recipes here at HBT.
My consensus is that a good recipe will not need it. There is a minor alcohol kick (~1% or so) if that's your game,
but I've found that a solid recipe provides all the enzymes required without any addition.

I've quit using them in brewing. Distillation, however, is all about alcohol gain, and that's where I will continue to use them.

Having blabbed all that, here's what I use in distillation and tried in brewing:

 

[passedpawn]

Enzymes reduce starch to the sugars (maltose) that can be consumed by yeast. Without any enzymes, the yeast would not ferment the wort. Malted barley contains starch and enzymes (including amylase). We mill the barley, then mix with warm water in the mash; warm water greatly speeds up the enzymatic action.

Since malted barley already contains enzymes, I don't see any point adding it to the mash. I guess if you had a large percentage of non-barley grain, you might consider it. For example, if you made a light lager with a lot of rice and corn, you might add some to the mash to ensure that all of the starches from the rice get reduced. However, even then, I don't see why you couldn't just add it to the fermentor.

Note that the enzymes will be destroyed (denatured) in the boil.

Be prepared for your beer to end up dryer than you had hoped.

I've used it before in the fermentor for a beer that stuck at 1.030 (likely due to mash temp issues). Worked for me. Lots of anecdotal info here: Escape from Stuck Fermentation Mountain - AE to the Rescue!

 

[SanPancho]

Since you did extract we cant say for sure why yeast stopped. (Say, a too high mash temp) If its just exhausted, then sometimes a bit of aeration can get it going again. Or add another neutral yeast that has high alcohol tolerance to finish the job.

If the remaining sugars are complex, you gotta use enzymes or yeast that can eat them. Brett strains, kv1116 wine yeast, etc. The issue is that once you add these guys (enyzmes and these yeasts) they dont stop. Your FG could end at zero.

Maybe thats an issue for you, maybe not.

 

[Bobby_M]

He said extract imperial stout. The only reason I could imagine a recipe calling for amylase is due to the fact that extract is mashed at a midrange temperature to leave some dextrines. For most beers it's fine but in really high ABV beers, it won't finish dry enough. The easy way to deal with this is to get some of the sugar from table sugar additions. If the recipe calls for something like 12 pounds of DME, use 10 pounds of DME and 2 pounds of table sugar. That will dry it out without adding amylase.

If you did want to try amylase to dry out an extract beer, I would bring the water up to 150F, then stir in all the extract, add the amylase and let it sit for about 30 minutes. Then bring it up to the boil as normal.

 

[Doobiebrewer]

He said extract imperial stout. The only reason I could imagine a recipe calling for amylase is due to the fact that extract is mashed at a midrange temperature to leave some dextrines. For most beers it's fine but in really high ABV beers, it won't finish dry enough. The easy way to deal with this is to get some of the sugar from table sugar additions. If the recipe calls for something like 12 pounds of DME, use 10 pounds of DME and 2 pounds of table sugar. That will dry it out without adding amylase.

If you did want to try amylase to dry out an extract beer, I would bring the water up to 150F, then stir in all the extract, add the amylase and let it sit for about 30 minutes. Then bring it up to the boil as normal.

Thanks. I have 1.114 of. Hoping to be under 1.020 fg. That's why I am looking into extra enzyme info in case I don't reach that. Thanks for all the tips.

 

[JimRausch]

Aaron- amylase won't help in an extract batch. With LME or DME, the starches that amylase would work on to change to sugars, have already been changed. So, you are actually asking the wrong question. You want to know how to take an OG of 1.114 (wow, wicked high) and have it ferment down to something reasonable. LOTS of yeast of a high alcohol tolerant type, oxygenation prior to fermentation, and maybe again 24 hours in, yeast nutrient, proper temperature control- all these are important. Do some more research in the yeast and fermentation area of the forum, focusing on high gravity fermentation. Good luck!

 

[Bobby_M]

Aaron- amylase won't help in an extract batch. With LME or DME, the starches that amylase would work on to change to sugars, have already been changed. So, you are actually asking the wrong question. You want to know how to take an OG of 1.114 (wow, wicked high) and have it ferment down to something reasonable. LOTS of yeast of a high alcohol tolerant type, oxygenation prior to fermentation, and maybe again 24 hours in, yeast nutrient, proper temperature control- all these are important. Do some more research in the yeast and fermentation area of the forum, focusing on high gravity fermentation. Good luck!

I dont disagree about other ways to increase attenuation but amylase can make extract more fermentable. It's not how I would do it. I would use simple sugar.

 

[bpgreen]

I would strongly advise against adding amylase after the boil unless you do something to stop it. I used beano once and didn't realize that out continues to convert until it converts everything it can. It slows way down and you'll think it's done. Then you'll get bottle bombs.

I was using using swing tops and they vented so I didn't get bombs, but I did manage you stain my ceiling.

I may be wrong, but I think amylase enzymes will convert unfermentable sugars to fermentable sugars, so it'll make extracts more fermentable.

If you heat the beer to deactivate the enzymes, you'll also kill the yeast, so you'll need to add yeast if you're naturally carbonating

 

[Kent88]

You shouldn't need any enzyme for an extract beer. Some extracts do stay a little sweet, but IMHO you risk having a beer that finishes too dry.

Then again, with a big stout the yeast might quit before they ferment all that.

You'll want to denature the enzymes before you get it in primary, so mix up the extract wort, add it at about 150 degrees, and if it was me, I would only let it go for about 10 minutes before cranking the heat back up to boil.

 

[Doobiebrewer]

I would strongly advise against adding amylase after the boil unless you do something to stop it. I used beano once and didn't realize that out continues to convert until it converts everything it can. It slows way down and you'll think it's done. Then you'll get bottle bombs.

I was using using swing tops and they vented so I didn't get bombs, but I did manage you stain my ceiling.

I may be wrong, but I think amylase enzymes will convert unfermentable sugars to fermentable sugars, so it'll make extracts more fermentable.

If you heat the beer to deactivate the enzymes, you'll also kill the yeast, so you'll need to add yeast if you're naturally carbonating

I did know this. I have swing tops but plan to bottle several different size bottles. Around 10% abv expected so I can age it and not make such a commitment when I open it.

 

[Lefou]

I use amylase for two reasons.
First, to speed all grain conversion and second, as an alternative means to create a slightly drier beer without boosting ABV too much through sugar/honey additions. Amylase added in this manner can help your efficiency to some degree, but you can compensate with better methods like getting a good grind or managing mash temps properly.
I wouldn't really recommend amylase for an extract imperial stout style brew unless you have a serious fermentation issue because you may dry your beer more than planned. For this style you're better off aerating well and getting a proper amount of pitched yeast.
My amylase is added immediately after adding strike water or about 30 minutes or so into an extended all grain mash taking longer than 60 minutes.

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

I know this is a really old thread, but I was searching for amylase advice and landed on it.

On Sunday, I brewed a BIAB, all grain American Stout. I did a mash out raising the temp to 168f to stop enzymatic action (I know not really necessary, but habit) and just as I was getting ready to pull the bag I saw my bag of flaked oats sitting on the counter. I missed adding it to the mash. Having just killed all the enzymes in the mash I was in a quandary.

I figured that I had three options.
1.) I could say screw it and leave the oats out, reducing head retention and creamy fullness. I didn't like this option.
2.) I could do a mini-mash with a lb of grain and the oats. This meant getting out the mill, scale and grain, which I had already put away. Too much work.
3.) I could use a little Amylase Enzyme I recently purchased (to use in a pilsner with some corn grits I was going to start early), lower the temp back down and continue the mash with the oats for a while.

I went with option 3. I lowered the mash temp back to 150-153f, added a tsp of the enzyme and the oats and an additional 4 ounces of regular breakfast quick oats. I mashed at 152f for an additional 45 minutes, pulled the bag and continued to the boil.

I won't know how it turns out until the beer is finished but I think it may have been a pretty good catch. I hit all my gravity numbers all day long. My SG ended up exactly where BeerSmith projected.

I pitched some Voss Kveik and have been fermenting at 80f for two days and the gravity went from 1.066 to 1.033 after 36 hours. I am not sure where it will end up. Hopefully the second mash didn't break down the initial sugars too much more in the 45 minutes of the second mash and dries it out. My initial mash was at 156 for fuller body and maltiness.

 

[JabatheNut]

Alfa-amylase breaks down the long starch chains to smaller dextrins. It acts optimally at 72 to 75°C and is rapidly destroyed at 80°C. The Optimum pH is 5.6 to 5.8. Beta-amylase splits maltose off from the non-reducing ends of chains but it also produces glucose and maltotriose. It acts optimally at 60C to 65C and is very sensitive to higher temperature, It is rapidly inactivated even at 70°C. The optimum pH is 5.4 to 5.5.

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

I forgot about this thread. I started a new one with the following:

I have a 5.5 gallon batch of an American stout with an OG that started at 1.064 (the exact BeerSmith estimate). It has stalled at 1.030. The expected final gravity from BeerSmith is 1.016.

I mashed at about 155-156f. During the mash out I realized that I didn't mash the flaked oats, I lowered the temp to 153 and added them and some additional quick oats in for an additional 45 minutes. I also added a tsp of amylase enzyme. I don't thing there was much enzyme in the mash at that point to break the oats down but I though it worth a shot.

I used Voss Kviek. I started fermenting at room temp and raised the temp to about 82-83f degrees after a day.

It has been fermenting for over 2 weeks and has sat at 1.030 for a week.

The expected ABV was 6.4. It is now sitting at 4.5%. Not a huge difference, but I think it would taste a bit better if it was a little less sweet.

I have shaken and swirled the fermenter a couple times to attempt a jump start but it hasn't done any good.

So, yesterday I added the Carlson bottle recommendation of 1/2 tsp Amylase enzyme for 5 gallons. I swirled the fermenter again. Today the gravity is still at 1.030.

My question is how long do you think it will be before I see any effect from the enzyme breakdown?

I am patient and have plenty of beer, so I can wait as long as it takes. Just curious if anyone else done this and had good results.

 

[conspiccus]

I forgot about this thread. I started a new one with the following:

I have a 5.5 gallon batch of an American stout with an OG that started at 1.064 (the exact BeerSmith estimate). It has stalled at 1.030. The expected final gravity from BeerSmith is 1.016.

I mashed at about 155-156f. During the mash out I realized that I didn't mash the flaked oats, I lowered the temp to 153 and added them and some additional quick oats in for an additional 45 minutes. I also added a tsp of amylase enzyme. I don't thing there was much enzyme in the mash at that point to break the oats down but I though it worth a shot.

I used Voss Kviek. I started fermenting at room temp and raised the temp to about 82-83f degrees after a day.

It has been fermenting for over 2 weeks and has sat at 1.030 for a week.

The expected ABV was 6.4. It is now sitting at 4.5%. Not a huge difference, but I think it would taste a bit better if it was a little less sweet.

I have shaken and swirled the fermenter a couple times to attempt a jump start but it hasn't done any good.

So, yesterday I added the Carlson bottle recommendation of 1/2 tsp Amylase enzyme for 5 gallons. I swirled the fermenter again. Today the gravity is still at 1.030.

My question is how long do you think it will be before I see any effect from the enzyme breakdown?

I am patient and have plenty of beer, so I can wait as long as it takes. Just curious if anyone else done this and had good results.

any update on how long it took in the end? I have just added alpha amylase to a stalled Rye IPA, which is sitting in the fermenter at 25*C.

 

[passedpawn]

any update on how long it took in the end? I have just added alpha amylase to a stalled Rye IPA, which is sitting in the fermenter at 25*C.

See this:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...ermentation-mountain-ae-to-the-rescue.212926/

 

[RPrindle]

In my experience adding an enzyme like this is usually useful when when distilling something like a potato vodka as it has heavy long starches that need to be converted that's about the only time I can think it to be useful other than a stalled fermentation

 

[Christoff]

A. Enzymes get used to dry out a beer. It was a short lived style (Brut) in the inland northwest that I would love to see come back. Enzymes give algers and pale ales a sort of champagne mouthfeel. I’ve used it a couple times to dry out my IPA’s and I’ve liked the results. It can drop your final gravity to basically zero so if you’re concerned about alcohol percentage keep that in mind. I add it during fermentation just as the active stage starts to slow down. It’s been a while since I brewed with it but I think it was only a couple drops.The advice I received about adding the enzyme was from the head brewer of a local brewery.

 

[passedpawn]

A. Enzymes get used to dry out a beer. It was a short lived style (Brut) in the inland northwest that I would love to see come back. Enzymes give algers and pale ales a sort of champagne mouthfeel. I’ve used it a couple times to dry out my IPA’s and I’ve liked the results. It can drop your final gravity to basically zero so if you’re concerned about alcohol percentage keep that in mind. I add it during fermentation just as the active stage starts to slow down. It’s been a while since I brewed with it but I think it was only a couple drops.The advice I received about adding the enzyme was from the head brewer of a local brewery.

It's important to understand that there are lots of different enzymes, and they each have different abilities to ferment our wort.

Alpha Amylase enzymes will not take a beer to 1.000. AA does not degrade maltose. A lot of people use AA to fix a "stuck fermentation" (typ due to high mash temps). AA is already in the barley, so there is no difference between adding AA to the fermentor, or just doing an overnight mash (which I do all the time for big beers). I use 2 tsp for a 5g batch... that might be 10x more than necessary, no idea, but it works.

Other enzymes like gluco-amylase and Beano (galacto-something) will definitely plow through maltose and every other starch in your beer. Those should be avoided unless you understand where it will end (dry!).

 

[Christoff]

It's important to understand that there are lots of different enzymes, and they each have different abilities to ferment our wort.

Alpha Amylase enzymes will not take a beer to 1.000. AA does not degrade maltose. A lot of people use AA to fix a "stuck fermentation" (typ due to high mash temps). AA is already in the barley, so there is no difference between adding AA to the fermentor, or just doing an overnight mash (which I do all the time for big beers). I use 2 tsp for a 5g batch... that might be 10x more than necessary, no idea, but it works.

Other enzymes like gluco-amylase and Beano (galacto-something) will definitely plow through maltose and every other starch in your beer. Those should be avoided unless you understand where it will end (dry!).

Sorry, yes, the Brutzyme by cellar science is what I use and it has A. enzyme in it but also has other enzymes which, based on your response, suggests one or more of the others drop the gravity. My apologies. It was described as Alpha Amylase where I bought it you have corrected that.


"There was no notation about any enzymes being added, but typically an amylase enzyme is added to help the beer dry out. In my experience this works best added during the fermentation process (right around that active fermentation dry hop should work) as you get good contact time with the enzymes and don't denature during the boil. "

I added it toward the end of active fermentation as per instructions from beer guy.

The guy was a head brewer, he gets paid to make beer. I used he knew what he was talking about. Maybe he is wrong, maybe he is not. I just figured I would share what he said. Every time I have used it my beer is at 1.000. I have never had that happen without it.

 

[passedpawn]

I've mostly added it at the end of fermentation because that is when I realized I had a problem . At the low fermentation chamber temperatures, enzymatic activity is far slower than it is at mash temps, so I've allowed weeks additional time to ensure the enzymes finish (there is no denaturing boil). Additional time is really important if you're bottling. Ultimately, your beer ends up at the "limit of fermentation", which for AA on barley is around 85-90%. So, a 1.060 OG will end up at 1.006. That indeed is dryer than desired for most styles. High-OG beers tolerate this well though.

A few times I added AA (and also gluco) at the beginning of the ferment to intentionally dry it out. For a light pilsner, it's a good experiment. Our late member @bracconiere had a lot to say about using enzymes to dry out beer (and other odd concoctions he made).

 

[mac_1103]

The guy was a head brewer, he gets paid to make beer. I used he knew what he was talking about. Maybe he is wrong, maybe he is not. I just figured I would share what he said. Every time I have used it my beer is at 1.000. I have never had that happen without it.

It was definitely gluco if it took your gravity down to 1.000 or lower. Maybe it was a mixture that also contained alpha, but alpha won't do that by itself.

And FWIW, I brew Brut IPA in my regular rotation. It's SWMBO's favorite. I tone it down to just under 6% ABV for summer. Very light, crisp and refreshing.