When does a yeast stop being 'wild'

[Microscopist]

I'm wondering here as I look at my expanding collection of nectar yeasts, at what point does a yeast stop being a wild yeast? I'd be happy to say my first test batch was wild since I simply made a starter using flowers and pitched it in but now I've picked colonies and selected strains... Even if I hadn't is it still a wild strain after a dozen repitchings? Like it or not that yeast has had a lot of selection pressure to adapt to something other than it's original home.

Do all these microbreweries specialising in wild and sour beers make a fresh from the wild the starter every batch or maintain a culture?

Just semantics but an interesting question

 

[WayFrae]

I am not of much help but I have wondered this too. Maybe once you have determined its characteristics and know the kind of flavor you get from the yeast then it is no longer considered wild but I honestly have no idea.

 

[phug]

When the fermentation characteristics begin to vary from your original captured yeast?


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[RonPopeil]

From what I understand, the bigger guys preserve their own cultures. Smaller brewers usually have to go through a lab service. I'd imagine it's a lot more broad than this.

 

[Microscopist]

That's a good description - that a random element is part of wild brewing.

 

[Oldsock]

I'm wondering here as I look at my expanding collection of nectar yeasts, at what point does a yeast stop being a wild yeast? I'd be happy to say my first test batch was wild since I simply made a starter using flowers and pitched it in but now I've picked colonies and selected strains... Even if I hadn't is it still a wild strain after a dozen repitchings? Like it or not that yeast has had a lot of selection pressure to adapt to something other than it's original home.

Do all these microbreweries specialising in wild and sour beers make a fresh from the wild the starter every batch or maintain a culture?

Just semantics but an interesting question

Very few breweries are really truly doing 100% wild/spontaneous fermentations. Even the most traditional lambic breweries are manipulating fermentation by reusing barrels and adding “established” beer to new barrels. It’s a lot like seed saving, exerting human selection rather than true natural selection.

Most American breweries either have a house culture they maintain and pitch, or they simply order fresh cultures from a yeast lab. In some cases (like Russian River) it's a combination - they have a house souring culture developed from their spontaneous fermentations, but also buy/pitch Brett strains for specific beers.

I’m personally not a fan of using “Wild” to describe beers fermented with lab cultures of Brettanomyces, but it seems to be the way that both craft brewers and home brewers are going. I also don’t have a great alternative term that covers 100% Brett, mixed-fermentation sour, and true spontaneous fermentations.

 

[Microscopist]

Let face it, when it comes to beer labels things often come down to what the brewery wants to brand it as - the hazy distinctions between bitter, SB and ESB are a good illustration of that.

I'd consider anything I've got off my mother culture as wild as I've made no attempt to isolate or control the mix ( besides making sure it's drinkable ) but now I'm selecting and eliminating colonies that produce off flavours I'd be inclined to just describe it as my yeast strain, isolated from nectar - but then I'm not trying to market it...

Even the standard beer yeasts were wild at one time, I wonder with the sudden surge of interest in the properties of other species whether we'll see the gradual emergence of formerly wild strains tamed and as compliant as cerevisiae but retaining their unique flavours.

I just hope we never get as far as seeing 50p a can supermarket dishwater fermented with Bret.'carlsbergensis'....

 

[816North]

I'm wondering here as I look at my expanding collection of nectar yeasts, at what point does a yeast stop being a wild yeast? I'd be happy to say my first test batch was wild since I simply made a starter using flowers and pitched it in but now I've picked colonies and selected strains... Even if I hadn't is it still a wild strain after a dozen repitchings? Like it or not that yeast has had a lot of selection pressure to adapt to something other than it's original home.

Do all these microbreweries specialising in wild and sour beers make a fresh from the wild the starter every batch or maintain a culture?

Just semantics but an interesting question

When you call it something other than wild. When does turfgrass stop being a weed and start being grass? When it grows where you want it and not where you don't.

 

[dantheman13]

It's an interesting semantics question. Even the the 2014 BJCP will back up the labeling of sour beers as "wild" beers (although I am not sure what the actual description of that is yet).

As far as semantics goes, I guess one way to look at it is that the opposite of "wild" is "domesticated", with a bit of a grey area in-between. You can breed lions in captivity, but they still aren't domesticated. They aren't truly wild any more either. I guess "captive" is the word we should use?

So, at what point is the yeast you are using domesticated? How do we define the word "domesticated" in regards to yeast wrangling? You could say that re-using the yeast cake could be domesticating it, but then again you're still not in 100% control. Once you're able to grow the wild yeast in a lab, control cell counts and pitching rates, etc., then it truly becomes domesticated. Until a yeast gets cultured and packaged for consistent and predictable usage, it remains "wild".

I dunno, just some thoughts from a very non-biology perspective.