Wheat wine partigyle critique

[TurnipGreen]

I'm planing a wheat wine partigyle with a wit beer out of the second runnings. I'd love to hear what folks thing about this general recipe.

Grain bill
16# wheat malt
8# either Maris otter or plain old 2 row
1# flaked wheat
1# honey malt
1 to 2# of cane sugar (to hit a OG around 1.100)

Hops
1oz Columbus for 60 min
1oz Citra for 5 min
1oz Citra at flame out
1-2 oz Citra for a dry hop

For yeast either WLP099 or WLP090

For the wit beer I'm thinking about using Manderina baveria hops and WLP400.

So, I've never used honey malt and I was hoping I could just steep them after mashing the other grains so I don't get the honey malt in the wit. I've been digging the forum for info if I can get that honey flavor with just steeping. I have read that a little goes a long way, so with this grain bill is a pound too much?

I also haven't used WLP099 or WLP090, so any feed back on that would be great too.

Those are the two big unknowns I had but I'm happy to hear any other critiques.

 

[IslandLizard]

Looks interesting!

Honey malt is a kind of crystal, so you can safely steep it. On that gravity, I don't think a pound is too much.

The bigger question is how are you going to lauter this? Someone recently brewed an oat wine and got the worst stuck mash ever seen. I've done 60% wheat Wit Biers and it was slow lautering even with a pound of rice hulls in a 12# grist.

Let me add, count on using some of your first runnings, say 15-20% in your Wit or it's gonna be disappointing flavor wise. Just using 2nd runnings seem to yield a lackluster beer from my experience.

 

[TurnipGreen]

I totally didn't think about lautering. I'll rethink that ratio a bit.

Thanks for the ratios. I've read your better served to mix the running but wasn't sure how much.

If I bring that wheat to barley malt closer to 50/50 I may switch to a pils malt.

 

[IslandLizard]

Last year there was an article in Zymurgy on parti-gyling, how it was done historically. There are other web sources too. Not sure if there's a given minimum but having at least 20-30% of a parti-gyled beer's gravity coming from 1st runnings won't hurt IMO. It needs to be planned how much you get from each runnings to make 2 beers at X1 and X2 gravity and Y1 and Y2 volumes.

Malted wheat lauters quite a bit better than flaked wheat. The modification process during malting already breaks down some of the gummy beta-glucans. A good beta-glucanase rest at 95-113°F for 20' breaks more of them down, as well as those present in the flaked adjuncts. Good stirring at the end of the mash reduces the viscosity. If too stiff, stir some more. Use plenty of rice hulls to keep it lush. I've had lautering take over an hour and a half, wide open, with only a thin stream coming out.

Maybe use MO and 2-row at a 50/50 mix or so? You want some of that MO flavor in there. Or use all 2-row and add a small amount of Biscuit/Victory. Or... do a double decoction wheat mash.

 

[signpost]

That was me that got the stuck sparge on the oat wine.

I'm definitely interested in how your wheat wine works out. Its another style that I've wanted to try.

 

[TurnipGreen]

Yeah. I think I want that maris otter flavor in there to try it with the honey malt. Do you think a pound is too much honey malt for this? I've read others say a little goes a long way.

I'll definitely do a beta rest if it'll help run off.

I'm pretty excited for this. Brewing a simple APA next week for a yeast cake. My wife is taking the kids out of state oveR a weekend next month. So I'll have the time to do beta rests and maybe a decoction.

Anyone have yeast recommendations for the wheat wine?

 

[signpost]

I used the Wyeast 1882-PC Thames Valley Ale II in my oat wine. It flocculates like crazy, but I'm liking what I've smelled so far. Haven't taken a taste quite yet, though. Also, it is supposedly can only tolerate up to 10% ABV, so maybe not the greatest choice. I used it because I had a big yeast cake from a large batch of a Special Bitter.

 

[TurnipGreen]

I brewed these beers weekend. I ended up using 10# of wheat and 14# of Maris Otter. Sparge was slow but not too bad with a pound of rice hulls. My yeast cake was WLP 090. It took off fast enough to blow my airlock off last night.

Looking forward to tasting these!

 

[TurnipGreen]

I transferred the wheat wine to a secondary. Since I've never had a wheat wine I have nothing to compare it to, but it tasted pretty good. It has that nice full mouth you get from a pile of wheat. The honey malt is there behind the wheat. It's pretty hot so I'm hopping that mellows as it ages.

I took a gravity reading of the wit from the second runnings. Mostly for an excus to taste it. It's ok. Nothing too exciting. I think I'll make a tincture of orange peel and coriander to put in at bottling.

I actually collected a third running with all the malt plus an other lb of crystal malt, then I threw two cans of frozen apple juice and an oz of cascade at 60 min and and oz at 15 min. I took a gravity reading on that too. It surprisingly doesn't taske too bad. It's really easy to drink, bit too bitter but other than that suprizingly good.

I'll need to hunt up a couple wheat wines to taste with this in a few months. Any recommendations?

 

[TurnipGreen]

So.....over two months and this is still sitting in the secondary. I'm thinking about dry hopping and bottling soon. I usually dry hop for 3-5 days and then cold crash for maybe two days.

Any recommendations to weather I need to add some yeast to bottle or do you guys think there is still enough floating around in there.

 

[signpost]

I've bottled after more than two months without adding yeast without any problems in the past. But adding a little extra wouldn't hurt. Just don't add a while packet or anything.

 

[TurnipGreen]

So, I've been reading over some older threads on Bottle conditioning barley wines and wheat wines. It seems like all thing brewing realated, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

I'm kind of interested in not re-pitching new yeast, but I'll be super ticked if it doesn't carbonate. Some posts said if you bulk age and don't re-pitch it can take a month or so to get some fizz, but it sounds like with higher gravity brews it will take more than the typical 2-3 weeks anyway?

So, if you've let beer sit in a secondary for two months and not re-pitched yeast, have you seen longer times to carbonate? What about at higher gravity?

 

[signpost]

When I've gone without reyeasting a higher gravity beer, I've typically expected to let it sit longer anyway. So, I couldn't really tell you how long it took to carb.

If you are nervous or in a hurry, just add half a pack of dry yeast and be done with it. It isn't difficult or time consuming to just add it as you bottle. Just rehydrate it add dump it in your bottling bucket at the same time you add your priming sugar. It'll get mixed in and you won't have to worry about anything.

 

[TurnipGreen]

Can you recommend a dry yeast to use? I'm sitting 10% ABV right now.

All I have in the fridge is Nottingham, but I'm going to town this weekend.

 

[jjeffers09]

I will say it. I do not like dry yeast for beer... there, said it.

 

[signpost]

The one I've used most for re-yeasting is T-58, because it is pretty darn cheap. I know it's pretty far out of style for a wheat wine, but it really won't add any character when adding just a small pitch for carbonation purposes. I typically use about a half of a packet, but you could probably use even less and be fine.

My preference is to go ahead and rehydrate the yeast so it mixes easily with the beer and priming sugar as you are prepping to bottle.

 

[jjeffers09]

Danstar CBC-1 is the only bottling yeast I have used. But wheat yeasts are usually pretty powdery, you may not need to get new yeast introduced into the bottle, idk 10% isn't all that high that you shouldn't have to worry. If you really want it carbed up like 2.8vols+ then yeah go for a fresh yeast.

 

[TurnipGreen]

Thanks. Everything I've read says I'll probably be fine either way. I just dry hopped yesterday. I plan on cold crashing later this week and bottling this weekend. I will be shooting for a little higher co2 maybe 2.7-2.8 ish, so I picked up some CBC-1.

If nothing else it will make me feel better.

 

[TurnipGreen]

Bottled today, with the help of my two year old.

Taste pretty good. The alcohol heat is toned down pretty much. I dry hopped with 2 oz of citra. I think I could have
gone with more. The dry hop taste good now I'd imagine that will mostly be gone in 8 months.

 

[TurnipGreen]

Sampled my first bottle last weekend. Taste pretty darn good. I think I could have used a lot more dry hop since I planning to put this up for awhile. Also my notes from bottling time mentioned a honeydew/melon flavor and I didn't pick any of that up but I also had a pale ale before opening this.

Over all I'm happy. And the second runnings made a great american wheat. The third runnings I used for a small batch of wheat-cider that also came out pretty good. I would do this again, maybe a barley wine or imperial stout next time.