Wheat +Rye = IPA recipe critique

[moonrover]

Hello,

I have been brewing now for probably five or so months now. I quickly outgrew Mr beer HME and went right into the BIAB method for the cost. I have had some luck with what i made so far, and some horrible lime beer i think i may have to pour out. I have been using other recipes online which are good but its not mine. Anyways my favorite style is an ipa so i wanted to take a stab at that.

I really like rye and wheat beers so I wanted top combine them into a ryeat ipa. So far this is what I have come up with. Any advice is help full i think possibly need one more grain but i want to focus on mainly a 50/50 split between wheat and rye malts.Im not sure but i have been drawn to the riwaka hops so i wanted to incorporate this uncommon hop into my brew. My setup is for a final volume of 3.5 gallons in the primary. Any larger of a pot wont fit my stove.

Thanks again,
Tony

Ryeat IPA
Added By: moonrover
Method: BIAB
Style: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 3.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.023 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)
OG:1.049
FG:.012
ABV:4.87%
IBU: 65.64
SRM: 4.59


Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
3 lb American - Rye 38 3.5 42.9%
3 lb American - Red Wheat 38 2.5 42.9%
1 lb Rice Hulls 0 0 14.3%
7 lb Total

Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
0.5 oz Nelson Sauvin Pellet 12.5 Boil 60 min 43.33
0.5 oz riwaka Pellet 5 Boil 10 min 6.28
0.5 oz Falconer's Flight 7c's Pellet 10 Boil 10 min 12.57
0.5 oz riwaka Pellet 5 Boil 5 min 3.46
0.5 oz Falconer's Flight 7c's Pellet 10 Aroma 0 min
0.5 oz riwaka Pellet 5 Aroma 0 min
0.5 oz riwaka Pellet 5 Dry Hop 7 days
0.5 oz Falconer's Flight 7c's Pellet 10 Dry Hop 7 days
0.5 oz NELSON SAUVIN Pellet 12.5 Dry Hop 7 days

Mash Guidelines
Amount Description Type Temp Time
3.5 gal Temperature 152 F 60 min
Yeast
Wyeast - American Wheat 1010
Ferment for 14 days then bottle.

 

[NedStackey]

I personally would add in 2 row as your base malt.

 

[rodwha]

Isn't he going to need 2-row to convert both the rye and the wheat?

At under 5% ABV it's also under what an IPA ought to have, with 5.5% be the minimum.

I'm also quite surprised that your boil off is that high. It seems 1 gal/hr is common.

I do like the idea of your rye wheat IPA! I had a rye wit at a local brew pub that got me interested in rye beers and later whiskey, having tried Ranger Creek's and the Knob's.

 

[moonrover]

Thanks for the tips guys. I used www.brewersfriend.com since i don't have beersmith at work so who knows how good it is. What would be a good amount of 2 row that wouldn't overpower the taste of rye and wheat? Maybe an even split at 2 lbs each or rye, wheat and 2 row? I would like to keep this around 5 % ABV.

 

[seabass07]

Rye and wheat malt can convert themselves. The boil off does seem high, but I'm guessing you know your system.

You might still have a hell of a time draining the bag with 6lbs of huskless malt and 1lb of rice hulls. IMO, bring the gravity up to IPA levels using 2row and maybe even add a bit more rice hulls. Just my opinion though. That amount of hops with such a small grain bill will not be very balanced.

 

[haberdasher]

I love rye. I usually brew with rye up to about 25-30% of the grain bill.

FOR 3.5 GAL, I'd go

3lb pale 2-row
3lb rye malt
2lb wheat malt
1lb rice hulls

Thats still 37.5% rye which is quite high... you may get some goatsnot wort... but not too bad. if this were a traditional mash tun, and not BIAB, it would be almost sure to be a stuck sparge...

The secondary benefit of this is getting the OG to 1.065 to even out your GU/BU ratio - meaning the OG is 65 points, the ibus are now 65points

as for the boil off --- 7.5 is the default for brewersfriend.com as it assumes a 5g batch

 

[freisste]

Rye has a strong flavor, so I personally wouldn't go with half the grain bill as rye - that's just me. I kinda laughed to myself when I read your question of how much 2row vs rye so the 2row doesn't overpower it (no offense) because it seems impossible. With 2row as mild as it is and rye as strong as it is, I think 10lbs 2row : 1lb rye you would taste the rye.

I too love the idea of a wheat/rye IPA. I think I'll be trying one in the near future. When you finalize a recipe and brew it, definitely post results.

Edit: I did brew a rye IPA a while ago (before I went AG). Recipe had 6lbs light DME, 1lb ea Vienna and 6row, and half lb ea CaraMunich and flaked rye. It had a nice rye spiciness that went well with the centennial hops. Noticeable rye flavor but certainly not overpowering. And that was with only 1/2lb compared to 6lbs DME and 2.5lbs of other grains (so roughly 25:1 ratio of "other" to rye, if it was AG). Just wanted to give an example.

 

[Beernik]

Rye and wheat can convert themselves as long as they are malted, not flaked.

I'm just thinking it's a good thing it's BIAB, because sparging in a mash tun would suck on a 50-50 rye-wheat beer.

The ryeweizen I'm brewing this weekend is 50% Pilsen, 25% torrified wheat, and 25% flaked rye.

 

[rodwha]

I used 18% rye and also 2-row in a rye pale, and though good, I wanted more. My next try I intend to go with 24% rye.

 

[tmm786]

I'm a fan of this idea too. I recently had a Rye/Wheat beer, with a very mild amount of rye that I want to try to recreate. I won't be going as strong as an IPA, but the same idea you are talking about applies. I think it's a great mix of flavors. I'm interested to hear how yours turns out, and my Rye/Wheat will probably be my first attempt at creating my own recipe now that I have gone all-grain.

 

[moonrover]

Thanks for the advice guys i finally figured out brewers friend website lol. I added some 2 row and tried to keep the rye around 20 % before the hulls were factored in. I also changed the yeast to dennys favorite. I haven't tried it yet but what the heck go big or go home. Im still open to suggestions as have to order the riwaka hops,and probably wont brew for a week or two.

Ryeat IPA
Added By: moonrover
Method: BIAB
Style: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 3.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 4 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.053 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)
Original Gravity: 1.060 Final Gravity: 1.015 ABV (standard): 5.95% IBU (tinseth): 50.1 SRM (mosher): 6.26

Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
1.5 lb American - Rye 38 3.5 17.6%
3 lb American - Red Wheat 38 2.5 35.3%
3 lb American - Pale 2-Row 37 1.8 35.3%
1 lb Rice Hulls 0 0 11.8%
8.5 lb Total

Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
0.5 oz Nelson Sauvin Pellet 12.5 Boil 60 min 33.07
0.5 oz Falconer's Flight Pellet 10 Boil 10 min 9.59
0.5 oz riwaka Pellet 5 Boil 10 min 4.8
0.5 oz riwaka Pellet 5 Boil 5 min 2.64
0.5 oz Falconer's Flight Pellet 10 Aroma 0 min
0.5 oz riwaka Pellet 5 Aroma 0 min
0.5 oz Falconer's Flight Pellet 10 Dry Hop 7 days
0.5 oz NELSON SAUVIN Pellet 12.5 Dry Hop 7 days
0.5 oz riwaka Pellet 5 Dry Hop 7 days


Mash Guidelines
Amount Description Type Temp Time
3.5 gal Temperature 152 F 60 min
Yeast
Wyeast - Denny's Favorite 50 1450

 

[RM-MN]

I made a roggenbier with 2 pound of 2 row and 3 pounds of rye, two pound of the rye was unmalted. That makes it 60% rye and I'd like to get even more. The roggenbier that had less rye I didn't even notice the rye contribution. This one I do.

 

[Veedo]

I've gone up to 20% malted rye in a pale, and it wasn't all that noticeable.

 

[moonrover]

So after the homebrew store mixing up my order I was sent some wakatu hops instead of Riwaka which nobody has. I decided to make this a New Zealand ipa with nelson sauvin, wakatu, and motueka. I love a fruity hop flavor/ aroma so this shall be interesting. I will be brewing this in a few weeks and ill post the results.

Ryeat IPA
Added By: moonrover
Method: BIAB
Style: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 3.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 4 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.053 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)
Original Gravity:
1.060
Final Gravity:
1.015
ABV (standard):
5.93%
IBU (tinseth):
63.38
SRM (mosher):
6.45

Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
2.5 lb American - Rye 38 3.5 27.8%
2.5 lb American - Red Wheat 38 2.5 27.8%
3 lb American - Pale 2-Row 37 1.8 33.3%
1 lb Rice Hulls 0 0 11.1%
9 lb Total

Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
0.5 oz Nelson Sauvin Pellet 12.5 Boil 60 min 33.13
0.5 oz wakatu Pellet 7.5 Boil 15 min 9.86
0.5 oz Motueka Pellet 7 Aroma 10 min 6.73
0.5 oz wakatu Leaf/Whole 7.5 Aroma 10 min 6.55
0.5 oz Motueka Leaf/Whole 7 Aroma 5 min 3.36
0.5 oz Nelson Sauvin Leaf/Whole 12.5 Boil 3 min 3.75
0.5 oz Motueka Pellet 7 Dry Hop 7 days
0.5 oz wakatu Pellet 7.5 Dry Hop 7 days

Mash Guidelines
Amount Description Type Temp Time
3.5 gal Temperature 152 F 60 min
Other Ingredients
Amount Name Type Use Time
1 each whirflock Water Agt Boil 15 min
Yeast
Wyeast - Denny's Favorite 50 1450

Notes
3 week primary
start of last week dry hop 7 days

 

[rodwha]

You mentioned a fruity hop flavor/aroma. Have you tried HBC-342? It's said to have a watermelon-like flavor.

I have 3 oz of it from when it first came out, but I haven't been inclined to use them as I'm not sure what other typical hops they'd go well with.

I keep meaning to make a small test batch pale with just 342, but haven't yet.

 

[moonrover]

That sounds amazing I'll have to pick those up. Watermelon is one of my favorite fruits. Thanks for the tip. I came across mandarina hops. I want to try those also.

 

[rodwha]

ooops.

 

[rodwha]

Ooops again!