whats with the bottle hype?

[Airborneguy]

No fault of yours, its just how things develop around here sometimes. The more "beer advocate-y" among us seem to argue things that about other people's processes that will never affect them at all...

Sounds like you would find benefits to doing both. Remember, bottling and kegging are not mutually exclusive. Its not like you have to trade in all of your bottling equipment when you start kegging. The ONLY answer to your question is that you should do what works best for you.

 

[janivar123]

Would be nice to keg
But going to the basment for a draft seemsa bit silly when i can fill up the free space in the fridge with bottles

And getting a used corny for 100$ is rare here

 

[gr8shandini]

That is ONE keg. no fridge, then you want the multiple tap kegerator with temperature control, more kegs for conditioning larger beers = 400-500 bucks.

I'm waiting to hit the Powerball then I'll get that, until then it is bottling for me.

If the cash is the only thing keeping you from kegging, just keep scoping out ebay / craigslist. There's always someone getting out of the hobby. A while back, I picked up 7 kegs, a 5 lb CO2 tank, regulator, faucets, shanks, and various plumbing bits for $100. He wanted me to take the fridge, too, but I already had one converted. I had to put another 30 bucks into O-rings and a couple of posts, but it was still a pretty good deal.

 

[asidrane]

For me it is all about space. In my apartment, I don't have room for a second fridge and I cannot sacrifice space in my main fridge for a keg and CO2. However, I do have plenty of space in my closet for bottles. In fact, I have about five cases of homebrew in there. I can easily put a bunch of bottles in the fridge to always have supplies ready to drink.

Now, when I move to my theoretical house and have a basement, I've already told SWMBO that I will have at least 4 taps. The time saved kegging seems worth it in the long run.

 

[GeoGirl]

I would love to keg, but right now, I am not able to brew enough to justify the initial cost. Nor do I have space in a 2-bedroom apartment right now to set up a kegging system. Eventually, when we move, I already told my daughter that I want to set up a kegging system. BUT, right now, bottling is fine with me. My 16yo helps me with it and I like that he is actually talking to me during the time. I like that I can just grab a few bottles and give them to friends.

 

[Weizenwerks]

Kegged beer also doesn't develop as fine a head,being force carbed,than bottle conditioning.

Bottle conditioning is force carbonation just like pressurized CO2 is. Both methods force carbon dioxide into solution. One uses plumbing and compressed gas, the other uses sugar and yeast. Head is more of a function of what happens in the mash rather than method of carbonation. Sure you can overcarbonate and have foamy beer just as you can over pitch sugar and get vulcano bottles.

as no co2 pressure has to be kept on a bottle to keep it sealed away from air.

CO2 is kept "on a bottle" by way of the cap which keeps oxygen out of it. With kegging, there is an equilibrium on the system. When I'm done drinking, I flip the check valve closed and don't worry about it.

If you like having a tap to pour your beer,fine.

Yup, it's great. Sometimes I want just a few more ounces before bed but don't want to open a full bottle and have to drink it or recap it. Plus, let's face it, chicks dig it.

 

[ByramMike]

I bottled my first batch, and used Tap-a-keg for the second. I liked bottling as it was fun to watch the number of bottles increase... but kegging to the mini keg cut the time from 1 hour to 15 minutes. Clean up was easier as well.

I was able to transport the equivalent of just over 17 12 oz bottles in the 1.6 gallon mini keg from NJ to Wisconsin using about as much space as my wife and daughter's toiletry kit (combined)... didn't have to hear the clinking all through Penn, Ohio and Illinois either.

For the next two batches I'll fill 2 kegs for each, and bottle the remainder... or at least thats my plan (I'm trying the carb tabs on my JQ Adams Marblehead).

 

[cricky101]

..... Plus, let's face it, chicks dig it.

I just ordered a 2-keg kit. Hope SWMBO agrees with you!

 

[Cosper123]

There's a lot of factors involved. Some people just like the idea of having something on tap and will spend the extra. Just like I like the ability to brew on my brewstand versus the stove top so I spent the extra. Also some people have many opportunities that others do not, being patient and seeking out that special deal. Different costs for different things in different areas. Sorry Mr. Norway I have a friendly counter to your inability to find a corny but the low cost wouldn't offset the shipping out of the country...and that just sucks

That is ONE keg. no fridge, then you want the multiple tap kegerator with temperature control, more kegs for conditioning larger beers = 400-500 bucks.

I'm waiting to hit the Powerball then I'll get that, until then it is bottling for me.

One keg has served me fine, but again I also bottle. You can upgrade to two taps rather easily especially if you do a little research. Like brewing in general there are always deals to be found if you have the patience and you don't have to buy everything at once. I found a dual gauge regulator for 16 bucks new, another faucet (knobs, shanks, etc) and sanke tap on craigslist for 15 bucks and a used corny for 20 bucks. Now all I need to do is buy new tubing, reconditoin the keg (clean, O-rings, etc.) and magically I have a two tap system and it didn't cost me 400-500 bucks. Oh yeah I'll also have to convert the sanke tap to fit my brother-in-laws ball lock I think. There will be cost involved there as well.

The fridge I also got off craigslist for 40 bucks and I use the freezer section for frosty mugs (and overflow from my wife's costco purchases)

I'm not rich, didn't win the lotto...just saved up for a few months and I was patient about my purchases. Like everything in brewing there's more than one way to do it.

And it all comes down to priorities. For example I have the kegging system that makes me happy, but my computer is 7 years old. And I'm a gamer, that's a really really really really really old computer for a gamer

In any case do what works for you. More than anything I'm just sorry that kegging is getting more and more expensive and less people have access to it. A pre-built kegerator can cost 600-800 bucks easy for a single tap and that's not even counting the keg and in some cases not counting the co2 tank either.

 

[WhiskeyR]

Plus, let's face it, chicks dig it.

This!

 

[unionrdr]

Bottle conditioning is force carbonation just like pressurized CO2 is. Both methods force carbon dioxide into solution. One uses plumbing and compressed gas, the other uses sugar and yeast. Head is more of a function of what happens in the mash rather than method of carbonation. Sure you can overcarbonate and have foamy beer just as you can over pitch sugar and get vulcano bottles.

CO2 is kept "on a bottle" by way of the cap which keeps oxygen out of it. With kegging, there is an equilibrium on the system. When I'm done drinking, I flip the check valve closed and don't worry about it.

Yup, it's great. Sometimes I want just a few more ounces before bed but don't want to open a full bottle and have to drink it or recap it. Plus, let's face it, chicks dig it.

Force carbing in a keg def is not the same as natural bottle carbing. It builds up from secondary fermentation in a bottle,working with the beer's constituents to produce a finer head/bubbles. It takes a few weeks,as you know. force carbing is just that. totally different.
I use o2 barrier caps & get about the same effects as the keg co2 thing. My views on natural carbonation are shared by many on here. Including some who've done both. In other words,bottle carbing is more gradual,giving the finer bubbles.

 

[dwarven_stout]

Force carbing in a keg def is not the same as natural bottle carbing. It builds up from secondary fermentation in a bottle,working with the beer's constituents to produce a finer head/bubbles. It takes a few weeks,as you know. force carbing is just that. totally different

Do you have a source for this romantic vision of bottle carbing besides anecdotal experience? As Weizenwerks said, beer head is pretty much determined by the mash and the nature of proteins that make it into the beer.

 

[jfr1111]

Do you have a source for this romantic vision of bottle carbing besides anecdotal experience? As Weizenwerks said, beer head is pretty much determined by the mash and the nature of proteins that make it into the beer.

A lot of Belgian/real ale afficionados say there is a difference between priming and force carbonation, so that's probably where the "small bubbles" story comes from. There probably IS a difference, but it's most assuredly not as simplistic as: force carbing = big bubbles, sugar priming = small bubbles.

For myself, I'm happy bottling and don't see how it takes up more space than a kegerator and a few kegs since I very rarely get a pipeline that is more than 2 cases deep. You can basically stash two cases of beer EVERYWHERE: closet, pantry, sex dungeon, beneath the stairs, etc.

 

[unionrdr]

No,it's not simplistic as all that. I just simplified it to make things short-n-sweet. Long winded doesn't cut it with most folks. I just notice a bit of difference between force carbed & bottle carbed.

 

[tyraindreams]

I thought just about everyone started in plastic buckets with bottles... I'm moving to a TAD/RHD system since I have an apartment and there's really not room in my fridge for 4 5 gallon kegs and some system to cool/carb them. But I do hate to bottle, I just don't find corny kegs appealing right now...

 

[dooman333]

I've heard some guys say carb amount/method has nothing to do with head and some say tap = big bubbles and bottle = little bubbles. First of all does bubble size deligate a frothier head and second, if not, what does?

 

[Weizenwerks]

Force carbing in a keg def is not the same as natural bottle carbing. It builds up from secondary fermentation in a bottle,working with the beer's constituents to produce a finer head/bubbles. It takes a few weeks,as you know. force carbing is just that. totally different.

This term "force carbing" is hanging things up. Force carbing is forcing carbon dioxide into a solution. Bottle conditioning is forcing carbon dioxide into a solution. They both are doing the same thing, forcing carbon dioxide into a solution. Different methods doing the same thing. Carbon dioxide dissolved into beer will have the same bubble size whether it's done through kegging or bottle conditioning. Head creation and retention are done in the mash, not the carbonating method. Head is directly related to proteins in the beer.

 

[PseudoChef]

unionrdr, have you done a side by side test of a beer from the same mash and fermentation, where one is bottle conditioned and one is kegged?

I think of kegging as I thought of a smartphone. I never thought I would need, or even less want one, but when opportunities presented themselves and I got them, I now cannot imagine life without them. With kegging, I get to completely drop my beer clear (a personal preference), dial in my carbonation with more precision, and still retain the ability to bottle if I choose to. I am also a big advocate of the CO2 that comes with the keg and its ability to let you close transfer throughout the packaging process.

 

[Mpavlik22]

This term "force carbing" is hanging things up. Force carbing is forcing carbon dioxide into a solution. Bottle conditioning is forcing carbon dioxide into a solution. They both are doing the same thing, forcing carbon dioxide into a solution. Different methods doing the same thing. Carbon dioxide dissolved into beer will have the same bubble size whether it's done through kegging or bottle conditioning. Head creation and retention are done in the mash, not the carbonating method. Head is directly related to proteins in the beer.

Very well said. I agree with this statement.

 

[unionrdr]

In bottle conditioning,you have to create the "right amount" of final carbonation through priming with the correct amount of sugar that in turn creates the co2 that is forced into solution through fridge time. And yes,dissolved proteins that weren't forced out help make the head. But you need the carbonation to get it to where it is in the final drink.
I'm not attacking anyone's personal preferences,I'm just stating what I've seen for myself. There is some truth to it,& there is some overlap. I just look at bottling as a more "classic" way to do it. All natural,as it were...

 

[Brew_4iT]

The whole concept could be psychosomatic, but maybe their is some truth to it. Force carbing from a gas is synthesized not created by living organisms naturally. If we look at foods that are processed and synthesized many people believe all natural organic products taste better and are better for the body.

 

[RDWHAHB]

Do you have a source for this romantic vision of bottle carbing besides anecdotal experience? As Weizenwerks said, beer head is pretty much determined by the mash and the nature of proteins that make it into the beer.

No,it's not simplistic as all that. I just simplified it to make things short-n-sweet. Long winded doesn't cut it with most folks. I just notice a bit of difference between force carbed & bottle carbed.

So no, you don't have a source? Let's hear the long version. If it were true, then you realize you can prime a keg, right?

 

[deadscott]

I do both. I bottle still more than I keg. I mostly use my kezzer as a fermentation chamber rather than kegging. Bottling is a pain but I like the benefits of it more. It gives longer storage life, more protability, and I am not only limited to the beers I have on draft. In the winter when I do not need the keezer for contolling temp I will keep a few on draft as well. In the end it is a personal choice. Do what best suits your needs.

 

[unionrdr]

So no, you don't have a source? Let's hear the long version. If it were true, then you realize you can prime a keg, right?

Just full of spit & vinegar,aren't we? It's a culmination of what I've learned so far,as I've been saying. Yes,you can use a keg to prime in as if it were a big bottle. Another version of bulk priming. But force carbing doesn't go that way. See the post above. Force carbing is a more synthetic way of doing it. Bottle carbing is more natural & organic,taking a longer period of time to achieve the desired result. I think that this is where the finer bubbles,Thicker head come in. Over & above proteins retained in solution after the proteins that do settle out when the wort is quickly chilled to pitch temp. Like my 9th grade math teacher had posted above the chalk board,"do your own thing,but don't stop me from doing mine". both ways is true. E tu,brutette.

 

[JasonToews]

you also gotta think, if you ever make imperial stouts or barleywines etc, you should age them.

 

[certaut]

I try to bottle a 12 from every batch, sometimes after racking to the keg I put 1tsp of sugar in the bottles and fill with the pre-carbed from the keg. I also counter pressure fill sometimes.
I have been thinking to rack to a keg with priming sugar in it and just fill a few bottles from it, and let the keg do it the German way

 

[cimirie]

I don't necessarily support the "thicker head" comment by uniondr, but he's 100% right on prime carbing producing smaller bubbles. This phenomena has been recognized in the sparkling wine community for years. Sommeliers can instantly tell if a sparkling wine uses "method champaignoise" (which is our prime carb method, plus some liquid nitro to freeze solution to remove the yeast) or forced carbonation. I took a wine class not too long ago and was able to see for myself. It is a fact.

That being said, Im not concerned how big my bubbles are. I bottle only when I'm out of keg space or I brew something that would be a slow mover (experimental, high abv, very sweet, etc).

 

[copyright1997]

I have been thinking to rack to a keg with priming sugar in it and just fill a few bottles from it, and let the keg do it the German way

This is what I did on my last batch. Did primary only, then racked to keg with some priming sugar (solution) already in the keg. Then applied a bit of gas/vented the air and used the beverage out to my bottle filler and did one case of 16 ounce bottles. Left both the bottles and keg in the basement at about 65 degrees to allow the natural carbonation to occur. I did this because I wanted some bottles to take to fiends, etc. Worked fine, and I intend to use this process again for some other batches.

 

[Mpavlik22]

Unionrdr, do you keg yourself? I see in your profile it says "no kegs yet"?

 

[RDWHAHB]

Just full of spit & vinegar,aren't we? It's a culmination of what I've learned so far,as I've been saying. Yes,you can use a keg to prime in as if it were a big bottle. Another version of bulk priming. But force carbing doesn't go that way. See the post above. Force carbing is a more synthetic way of doing it. Bottle carbing is more natural & organic,taking a longer period of time to achieve the desired result. I think that this is where the finer bubbles,Thicker head come in. Over & above proteins retained in solution after the proteins that do settle out when the wort is quickly chilled to pitch temp. Like my 9th grade math teacher had posted above the chalk board,"do your own thing,but don't stop me from doing mine". both ways is true. E tu,brutette.

Not trying to be nasty. And I certainly not trying to stop you from doing your own thing. Nobody is stabbing Ceasar....

However, I do think your claims are false. Just because it is natural and organic does not mean you will get a different bubble size. I believe dissolved CO2 is dissolved CO2. I would love to see sources contrary. Do you believe "bulk aging"/priming a keg give you smaller bubbles and thicker head? Or just bottle conditioning?