What's with all the IPA's?

[JAReeves]

Chasing a sub-5%, really hoppy, pale beer (whatever you want to call it), that isn't b***-puckering bitter or overwhelmed by crystal malt, is my constant motivation. If I could buy it on the regular, I wouldn't be brewing in my garage.

 

[tdf]

Chasing a sub-5%, really hoppy, pale beer (whatever you want to call it), that isn't b***-puckering bitter or overwhelmed by crystal malt, is my constant motivation. If I could buy it on the regular, I wouldn't be brewing in my garage.

Me too. I also need it to be really hoppy while not too high on the tropical fruit flavors. Give me that pine, dank, resinous, citrus character.

 

[passedpawn]

Me too. I also need it to be really hoppy while not too high on the tropical fruit flavors. Give me that pine, dank, resinous, citrus character.

Yep. I have really come to HATE any sort of citrus in my IPAs. I keep working on columbus and chinook to get the great IPA without dank and tropical

 

[rodwha]

Yep. I have really come to HATE any sort of citrus in my IPAs. I keep working on columbus and chinook to get the great IPA without dank and tropical

Interesting. Do you find the Hazy/Juicy/NEIPA to quite hit or miss like myself? So many to me are off putting and rarely try them unless it’s from a brewery that I found made them good to me. I’m just glad that there’s plenty of variety within the style, and a broad paint brush if you brew at home. I’ve been meaning to revisit the British IPA, some good traditional types. Not so easy to find here in Texas it seems.

 

[rodwha]

Yep. I have really come to HATE any sort of citrus in my IPAs. I keep working on columbus and chinook to get the great IPA without dank and tropical

You have me quite inquisitive now. Clearly you do like some IPAs, what did this recipe or ones you generally make look like? I’ve only come super close to finding my best black IPA, and I LOVE the style.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Me too. I also need it to be really hoppy while not too high on the tropical fruit flavors. Give me that pine, dank, resinous, citrus character.

Yup. I like my N. American IPAs to reek of pine, dank, and citrus. I just can't get my mind around the new-style hops. To me, they taste like a bad fermentation--that's why I keep saying save money on hops, just ferment S-23 at 74F!

 

[Bramling Cross]

I'm not kidding about S-23 at 74F.

Were it not for the fact that I swore I'd never bottle another ^*%*$#@ bottle of beer ever again twenty years ago and the fact that extract goop is so stupidly expensive these days, I'd be sorely tempted to enter my first ever competition with the following recipe.

Full boil, late Goop method to 1.070.
.25oz of Magnum @ 20
1lb Gold's All Purpose Flour @ 10min

Cool to 70F and pitch 1 sachet of S-23 and let free rise to 74F until complete or two months later, then bottle.

I am confident that this recipe will slay at the county fair--as a DC resident, that last bit is the tricky part.

 

[Shenanigans]

You have me quite inquisitive now. Clearly you do like some IPAs, what did this recipe or ones you generally make look like? I’ve only come super close to finding my best black IPA, and I LOVE the style.

Do you have a recipe for that Black IPA?
I love that style too when it's done properly (or to my taste) but unfortunately there are too many that are unbalanced and end up like a hoppy porter or stout.

 

[rodwha]

Do you have a recipe for that Black IPA?
I love that style too when it's done properly (or to my taste) but unfortunately there are too many that are unbalanced and end up like a hoppy porter or stout.

Absolutely!

2.5 gal batch 75% efficiency

5.125 lbs base malt (2-row and white wheat for me to help with head retention)
0.375 lb caramel 90
0.25 lb caramel 60
0.25 lb Midnight Wheat
0.125 oz Centennial or other @ first wort hop
0.75 oz Centennial @ 15 mins/5 mins/30 min Whirlpool each
2 oz dry hop
US-05

1.064/1.012
6.8% abv
72 IBUs rager
29-30 SRM

I shoot for an average mash temp around 152-154° and crush fine after moistening the grains.

To reduce even further the slightly roasty character I will instead add the Midnight Wheat when I sparge (I top back to the top of the grains, stir, and let sit 5-10 mins and repeat a couple of times). This will give most of the color with muted flavors.

Really I prefer to use dank hops for this style. I’ve not made it yet, but have all I need for it, and that uses Chinook, Simcoe, and Columbus in the boil and Strata for dry hopping. This was recommended as the most dank they could come up with. I’m anxious!

 

[passedpawn]

Interesting. Do you find the Hazy/Juicy/NEIPA to quite hit or miss like myself? So many to me are off putting and rarely try them unless it’s from a brewery that I found made them good to me. I’m just glad that there’s plenty of variety within the style, and a broad paint brush if you brew at home. I’ve been meaning to revisit the British IPA, some good traditional types. Not so easy to find here in Texas it seems.

Maybe it's just cause I'm old, but I don't like cloudy beers. Ever. And "juicy" is the term for citrusy, which I don't want in a beer. I don't judge - it one likes that, great! I don't.

 

[Shenanigans]

Absolutely!

2.5 gal batch 75% efficiency

5.125 lbs base malt (2-row and white wheat for me to help with head retention)
0.375 lb caramel 90
0.25 lb caramel 60
0.25 lb Midnight Wheat
0.125 oz Centennial or other @ first wort hop
0.75 oz Centennial @ 15 mins/5 mins/30 min Whirlpool each
2 oz dry hop
US-05

1.064/1.012
6.8% abv
72 IBUs rager
29-30 SRM

I shoot for an average mash temp around 152-154° and crush fine after moistening the grains.

To reduce even further the slightly roasty character I will instead add the Midnight Wheat when I sparge (I top back to the top of the grains, stir, and let sit 5-10 mins and repeat a couple of times). This will give most of the color with muted flavors.

Really I prefer to use dank hops for this style. I’ve not made it yet, but have all I need for it, and that uses Chinook, Simcoe, and Columbus in the boil and Strata for dry hopping. This was recommended as the most dank they could come up with. I’m anxious!

Thanks for the recipe, looks good
In the example is the 2 oz dry hop also all centennial? How much white wheat are you adding?

 

[rodwha]

I didn’t get this fad. I still am puzzled a bit. Soooo many we tried seemed murky with no direction I guess I’d say. Nothing stood out but weirdness I didn’t care for. Very few examples I enjoyed.

I recently brewed a 6% IPA with Centennial, Amarillo, and Cascade but I feel it’s too much, though I painted well outside of the lines at 91 IBUs rager. It feels like way too much hop punch.

I quit using clarifiers and use a lot of wheat in my beers for good head retention and these aren’t clear. That doesn’t bother me at all. But really hazy IPAs are so hit or miss. I’ve seen they’re better these days for the most part but I’ll always order another IPA style before that one, my last choice as I’d prefer a good pale ale over most of those. Cloudy doesn’t bother me though.

 

[rodwha]

Thanks for the recipe, looks good
In the example is the 2 oz dry hop also all centennial? How much white wheat are you adding?

That’s not a fair question today My wife quit making bread so I have tons of wheat now and really load up since it’s free.

In the recipe I gave you that I recently brewed used 4.125 lbs 2-row and 1 lb of white wheat. I wouldn’t usually try so much but honestly it’s not that different than when I used smaller amounts of wheat. I’ve been using wheat in place of carapils or anything else for head retention for a long time now.

 

[HM-2]

That’s not a fair question today My wife quit making bread so I have tons of wheat now and really load up since it’s free.

In the recipe I gave you that I recently brewed used 4.125 lbs 2-row and 1 lb of white wheat. I wouldn’t usually try so much but honestly it’s not that different than when I used smaller amounts of wheat. I’ve been using wheat in place of carapils or anything else for head retention for a long time now.

Do you perceive much difference in head retention using ~20% of the base grist wheat versus say 5-10%?

I use 5% wheat in all my British beers for head retention, and recently did a WCIPA (probably more of a mountain IPA really) that had 5% wheat in it too. And felt it did pretty well in terms of keeping a pretty dense, tight head - though I'm not sure I'd want creamy shaving foam on my Westies...

I ask because it strikes me as pretty unusual to brew IPAs other than hazy/white/Belgian with wheat in them at all, let alone in large quantities.

 

[rodwha]

Do you perceive much difference in head retention using ~20% of the base grist wheat versus say 5-10%?

I use 5% wheat in all my British beers for head retention, and recently did a WCIPA (probably more of a mountain IPA really) that had 5% wheat in it too. And felt it did pretty well in terms of keeping a pretty dense, tight head - though I'm not sure I'd want creamy shaving foam on my Westies...

I ask because it strikes me as pretty unusual to brew IPAs other than hazy/white/Belgian with wheat in them at all, let alone in large quantities.

Honestly I don’t, but for me it’s become more of an add a little free wheat instead of just paid for barley. I have to say though that my last IPA with no crystal malts but 13.9% after using a large dose of cane sugar, that it was extremely cloudy the first week but now on the second is rather clear surprisingly. I thought wheat added a pronounced haze, even more so with so much hop matter in there too. I didn’t usually use this much wheat until my wife gave me something like 15-20 lbs of wheat berries. I’m a bit frugal.

 

[wdavis2003]

I'm not kidding about S-23 at 74F.

Were it not for the fact that I swore I'd never bottle another ^*%*$#@ bottle of beer ever again twenty years ago and the fact that extract goop is so stupidly expensive these days, I'd be sorely tempted to enter my first ever competition with the following recipe.

Full boil, late Goop method to 1.070.
.25oz of Magnum @ 20
1lb Gold's All Purpose Flour @ 10min

Cool to 70F and pitch 1 sachet of S-23 and let free rise to 74F until complete or two months later, then bottle.

I am confident that this recipe will slay at the county fair--as a DC resident, that last bit is the tricky part.

Glad I'm not the only one. Some of my best beers have been fermented with S-23 in the mid-70's. Currently, I have a Bock cold crashing that was fermented with S-23 close to 80. We'll see if it's any good or not. I think it will be.

 

[rodwha]

Glad I'm not the only one. Some of my best beers have been fermented with S-23 in the mid-70's. Currently, I have a Bock cold crashing that was fermented with S-23 close to 80. We'll see if it's any good or not. I think it will be.

Interesting. I never would have looked at that yeast. I’m curious though as it states you should keep the temps below 65 for the best results, and in the 50’s is recommended, of course as a lager yeast, so why ferment so warm?

 

[tdf]

Interesting. I never would have looked at that yeast. I’m curious though as it states you should keep the temps below 65 for the best results, and in the 50’s is recommended, of course as a lager yeast, so why ferment so warm?

In my experience, S23 gets extremely fruity much above 60F. And not in a good way.

 

[wdavis2003]

Interesting. I never would have looked at that yeast. I’m curious though as it states you should keep the temps below 65 for the best results, and in the 50’s is recommended, of course as a lager yeast, so why ferment so warm?

Well I would not go that high under normal circumstances. My experience comes from fermenting the yeast under pressure and absolutely no fruity character mentioned above. Very crisp and clean.

And the reason is, that brewing in the Texas summer where the ground water is 80 I can't get it any lower than that. Unless I pull out the sump pump in an ice bath and I haven't had a reason to do that due to, as I mentioned, the beers turn out great.

 

[rmchair]

Do you have a recipe for that Black IPA?
I love that style too when it's done properly (or to my taste) but unfortunately there are too many that are unbalanced and end up like a hoppy porter or stout.

The Morebeer Doze Black IPA is really good. Developed by their local homebrew club. The recipe is on their kit page in the photos.

 

[Shenanigans]

The Morebeer Doze Black IPA is really good. Developed by their local homebrew club. The recipe is on their kit page in the photos.

Looks good, thanks for the tip.

 

[rodwha]

Well I would not go that high under normal circumstances. My experience comes from fermenting the yeast under pressure and absolutely no fruity character mentioned above. Very crisp and clean.

And the reason is, that brewing in the Texas summer where the ground water is 80 I can't get it any lower than that. Unless I pull out the sump pump in an ice bath and I haven't had a reason to do that due to, as I mentioned, the beers turn out great.

I’m quite unfamiliar with pressurized fermentation. Does it speed up the process? Does it generate heat by doing this? I’ve only more recently been seeing talk of it.

I totally get being on Texas well water. My grandma used to live outside of Bulverde on a well.

 

[Broothru]

I could see mild getting some traction but the US it would be 6.8% ABV and double dry hopped.

And HAZY. Don’t forget, if the hipsters with ‘man buns’ are gonna’ drink it, it has to be HAZY!!!

Or seltzer. Either way, these fleeting trends are occupying valuable shelf space in every self-respecting liquor store between here and next week. Can’t wait for “the next best thing” (which is itself an oxymoron) to displace all these interlopers so we can get back to seeing real beers in their rightful place.

 

[Broothru]

The days of IBU bombs are mostly long gone (thank GOD) I love a good semi old Skool West Coast IPA (caramunich instead of crystal, reasonable bittering IBUs, 6.5% ABV ish, touch of citra w the old skool skunk)
Hazys completely changed the IPA game in a good way IMO.

Except…they’re HAZY!!!

 

[Broothru]

I'm with you, man. Aside from the high FGs and dumb amounts of C-malts, I really miss those IBU Wars beers. [Edit: More accurately, the pre-IBU Wars beers.]

Then, as now, I like getting my IBUs on at 1.045. When your FG is sub-1.010, the hops properly hit. There's no cloying high gravity, no booziness to obstruct them. It's just tongue, brain, arghlebargleymwaaaaahnumnumnum hop buzz.

Yum.

On all that, we can surely agree. I’ve found a few hazies that tasted good enough to go for a second round.

But why’d they have to be so HAZY??!?

 

[Broothru]

I didn’t get this fad. I still am puzzled a bit. Soooo many we tried seemed murky with no direction I guess I’d say. Nothing stood out but weirdness I didn’t care for. Very few examples I enjoyed.

I recently brewed a 6% IPA with Centennial, Amarillo, and Cascade but I feel it’s too much, though I painted well outside of the lines at 91 IBUs rager. It feels like way too much hop punch.

I quit using clarifiers and use a lot of wheat in my beers for good head retention and these aren’t clear. That doesn’t bother me at all. But really hazy IPAs are so hit or miss. I’ve seen they’re better these days for the most part but I’ll always order another IPA style before that one, my last choice as I’d prefer a good pale ale over most of those. Cloudy doesn’t bother me though.

Me too. I never fell off the WCIPA bus, even if many of them grew boring and monotonous, with every brewery trying to outdo the other guys in producing a new high octane lupulin delivery device.

At the height of this brewing phase, I had my first Pliny the Elder. I can count the number of beers on one hand that truly blew me away at first sip (with the thumb and three fingers missing). Of course it was PtE.

I haven’t had the opportunity to return to Santa Rosa to rekindle the romance. Life keeps getting in the way, and PtE is almost impossible to find back here on the East Coast.

But the memories of First (beer) Love still linger. I know she’s put on a new ‘wardrobe’ and had some ‘cosmetic work’ done on her recipe. But all things change with age, and many get even better with the passage of time. At least I hear she hasn’t gone all hazy on me. Still wrinkle-free and beautiful as ever in my mind’s eye.

 

[wdavis2003]

I’m quite unfamiliar with pressurized fermentation. Does it speed up the process? Does it generate heat by doing this? I’ve only more recently been seeing talk of it.

I totally get being on Texas well water. My grandma used to live outside of Bulverde on a well.

I've heard some experienced brewers on this forum argue that it does not speed up the process. In my experience, it does. And I'm not sure it generates heat more than other fermentations. If you have an accurate way of measuring temp during fermentation, you'll notice a 5 or 6 degree bump in temperature during peak fermentation.

 

[bwible]

Geez - I started homebrewing in 1997. Back then the big beer everybody wanted to clone was Sierra Nevada Pale ale. Which by todays standards is not really hoppy. Back then it was one of the hoppiest beers, especially for a pale ale.

Like others have said, things have been called IPA for probably more than a century. Ballantine beer used to make one I think before it was all the rage.

I think it was into the late 90s and earlly 2000s that breweries started pushing the hop envelope here and people became fascinated with the idea of the 100 IBU beer with a pound of dry hops.

I used to brew and drink them much more but now I really can’t. One of two of those hop bombs leave me with bad heartburn anymore.

>I think we are pushing into the 3rd decade of the >IPA craze.
>
>While I’m happy the style isn’t dominated by >west coast simcoe IPAs anymore, I wish my >grocery stores had a bigger ‘not-IPA’ section.

Fast forward to today and everything is hazy ipa. Thats a trend I personally wish would just die. I like the west coast versions better. The sight of some of these beers makes my throat close and makes me physically gag. I wish more beers were not only not ipa but especially not hazy ipa. You go into a bar now and every tap is hazy ipa. Or at least 8 out of 10 taps. And many in the store come in cans and aren’t labelled as hazy, so you don’t even know what you’re buying. If I buy IPA its something I know like Troegs or Lagunitas. Avoid anything with a stupid name, especially if the word “dank” appears anywhere.

And don’t get me started on the Kviek yeast fad. Maybe the brew rags can publish 3,000 more articles about that.

 

[bwible]

It's a bit of long-running, rather stupid joke. No, mild (as Gordon Strong wants us to define it) will never take off.

Hell, we can’t even find any bitters or British Pale here anymore outside of a few nitro cans of Boddingtons. Or sometimes Fuller’s in 4 packs. Back in the day we used to get Whitbread and a bunch of others that we just don’t see anymore. Not even at the big places. There’s one micro here that does British beer on a handpump. And its not exactly real close to me.

 

[bwible]

Maybe it's just cause I'm old, but I don't like cloudy beers. Ever. And "juicy" is the term for citrusy, which I don't want in a beer. I don't judge - it one likes that, great! I don't.

If you want juicy buy juicy juice and drink it out of the little box through your little plastic straw

 

[rodwha]

I could see mild getting some traction but the US it would be 6.8% ABV and double dry hopped.

Brewing another 4%-ish mild has been on my to-brew list for a while. It really is an easy to brew beer that tastes great any time of the year.

I make one I call a Texas dark mild after hearing so much on the British forums and then reading an article in BYO, and making one with American ingredients. I went the route of pre war gravity before taxation neutered the alcohol content to no more than 3.8%. I’m guessing that’s a part of why it’s fallen out of favor and considered grandpa’s beer. I’m a sipper so my beer lasts about an hour so 6.something% is ideal for me.

 

[rodwha]

Me too. I never fell off the WCIPA bus, even if many of them grew boring and monotonous, with every brewery trying to outdo the other guys in producing a new high octane lupulin delivery device.

At the height of this brewing phase, I had my first Pliny the Elder. I can count the number of beers on one hand that truly blew me away at first sip (with the thumb and three fingers missing). Of course it was PtE.

I haven’t had the opportunity to return to Santa Rosa to rekindle the romance. Life keeps getting in the way, and PtE is almost impossible to find back here on the East Coast.

But the memories of First (beer) Love still linger. I know she’s put on a new ‘wardrobe’ and had some ‘cosmetic work’ done on her recipe. But all things change with age, and many get even better with the passage of time. At least I hear she hasn’t gone all hazy on me. Still wrinkle-free and beautiful as ever in my mind’s eye.

We were on a roving vacation and went through a portion of California. Wildfires kept us from a park so my wife had us go to Russian River. PtE is phenomenal but my understanding is it’s the Younger that’s the true star. It’s not long in the kegs though…

 

[rodwha]

I've heard some experienced brewers on this forum argue that it does not speed up the process. In my experience, it does. And I'm not sure it generates heat more than other fermentations. If you have an accurate way of measuring temp during fermentation, you'll notice a 5 or 6 degree bump in temperature during peak fermentation.

Pressurizing generally increases temps so I assumed it did so here as well. I would think it would speed up the process a little as well. What are the benefits to doing it this way? Why go through the trouble?

 

[Bramling Cross]

Hell, we can’t even find any bitters or British Pale here anymore outside of a few nitro cans of Boddingtons. Or sometimes Fuller’s in 4 packs. Back in the day we used to get Whitbread and a bunch of others that we just don’t see anymore. Not even at the big places. There’s one micro here that does British beer on a handpump. And its not exactly real close to me.

It's funny how we eventually won the war against fizzy yellow swill and got what we wanted, a fridge full of many different breweries.

It's a pity we were too stupid to ask for a fridge full of many different breweries brewing many different styles.

With the wisdom of hindsight, there's an argument to be made that BMC never was the problem. The problem is, and always has been, us.

Sadly, most of us enjoy the regularity of sameness and the illusion of difference.

Fortunately, we're all amazing homebrewers so we can drink wildly different beers every night!*


*That sentence was written by a man that has 20 gallons worth of variations on his fizzy yellow swill recipe currently residing in his fridge. Do not take this man seriously, he is a traitor against the BMC revolution and should be hanged, naked, on the nearest convenient lamppost and his corpse subjected to public ridicule.

 

[HM-2]

I've heard some experienced brewers on this forum argue that it does not speed up the process. In my experience, it does. And I'm not sure it generates heat more than other fermentations. If you have an accurate way of measuring temp during fermentation, you'll notice a 5 or 6 degree bump in temperature during peak fermentation.

All else being equal, pressure doesn't (or shouldn't) speed up fermentation in and of itself. IME what speeds up fermentation is the ability to ferment at significantly warmer temperatures (e.g, lager strains at full ale temps).

 

[wdavis2003]

What are the benefits to doing it this way? Why go through the trouble?

It's really no trouble. I'd say it's easier. You don't have to cool the wort as far down. You don't have to play around with temperatures during fermentation like a traditional fermentation, i.e., slowly ramping the temps up over a certain amount of days and doing a diacytel rest. Just slap a spunding valve on and leave it for a week.

 

[passedpawn]

Pressurizing generally increases temps so I assumed it did so here as well. I would think it would speed up the process a little as well. What are the benefits to doing it this way? Why go through the trouble?

I ignored it as an unnecessary complexity also. But after trying a few beers made this way, I changed my mind and started doing it. It's no extra trouble at all, but does involve some different equipment.

The reason I started doing it was to do the low O2 thing. It's pretty easy when pressure fermenting. Even the transfer from fermentor to serving keg is easy and you never open the fermentor, and the transfer is simple because there already exists pressure in the fermentor. Lots to say about it, but this isn't the right thread for it. One side effect - if you pressure-ferment the entire fermentation, the beer might taste TOO clean - it seems to suppress some of the flavors derived from the yeast. Probably a great method for pilsners, maybe not so much for some others. I use a Fermzilla All Rounder.

 

[JAReeves]

It's funny how we eventually won the war against fizzy yellow swill and got what we wanted, a fridge full of many different breweries.

It's a pity we were too stupid to ask for a fridge full of many different breweries brewing many different styles.

With the wisdom of hindsight, there's an argument to be made that BMC never was the problem. The problem is, and always has been, us.

Sadly, most of us enjoy the regularity of sameness and the illusion of difference.

Fortunately, we're all amazing homebrewers so we can drink wildly different beers every night!*


*That sentence was written by a man that has 20 gallons worth of variations on his fizzy yellow swill recipe currently residing in his fridge. Do not take this man seriously, he is a traitor against the BMC revolution and should be hanged, naked, on the nearest convenient lamppost and his corpse subjected to public ridicule.