What's the Point of Lagering?

[MyQuL]

As I understand thing lagering (or cold conditioning) is done to blend and smooth the flavours of the beer. But doesn't this happen anyway at non-lagering temps given enough time? Or does it happen 'better' at lagering temps?

 

[kombat]

The colder temperatures of lagering encourage solids to precipitate out of solution faster than at room temperature. Lagering really just means allowing impurities to drop out, giving you clearer, cleaner beer. You can achieve the exact same thing with filtering. I assure you, Budweiser doesn't just let their beer sit around in giant cold tanks for 4 weeks before packaging and shipping. They're grain-to-glass in a couple of weeks, thanks to filtering.

 

[unionrdr]

It definitely helps develop a cleaner, crisper flavor in lager beers. Or even hybrids or kolsches, in my experiences.

 

[MyQuL]

The colder temperatures of lagering encourage solids to precipitate out of solution faster than at room temperature. Lagering really just means allowing impurities to drop out, giving you clearer, cleaner beer. You can achieve the exact same thing with filtering. I assure you, Budweiser doesn't just let their beer sit around in giant cold tanks for 4 weeks before packaging and shipping. They're grain-to-glass in a couple of weeks, thanks to filtering.

But as in my OP, it will happen on it's own due to gravity, eventually wont it?

I ask because as I now have some fermentation temp control in the form of a cool brewing bag I'm going to start doing some psuedo lagers but only have my domestic fridge to actually lager in. So will only be able to do 1 easy keg at a time. However I don't mind leaving them for a few months to 'lager' at room temp.

I can imagine most large brewers don't wait around as long as us HBers for fermentation, conditioning etc. Think they's probably go bust if they did (well not make as much money anyway)

Anyway cheers mate

 

[Likefully]

I am quite interested to know when the first 90% of the effect of lagering is achieved. I am sure its reached within a few days.

I reckon if you lagered at 2Celsius for 5 days you would get pretty close to that (90%) and your beer will certainly be clean enough to notice the difference.

 

[kombat]

The problem is that the cold temperatures are required in order to get some of the compounds to actually form, so that they can precipitate out. For example, chill haze. If you never chill the beer, chill haze will never form, and will never fall out of solution. You have to cause it to form first (by chilling the beer), so that it can start to fall to the bottom.

That said, you can "lager" in the keg. Just package the beer as normal, put it in your keezer/kegerator, hook it up to CO2, and ... don't drink it for a while.

 

[mongoose33]

I think the issue is also the temp fermentation is held at. I have an ESB in the fermenter now. Temps 64 68 F.

Pitched the yeast 5th Saturday evening. This morning, 5 1/2 days later, it's still bubbling.

At lower temps it would be slower. Now that is for S-04, not a lager yeast, but still...

 

[unionrdr]

I've made pseudo, or hybrid lagers, since i don't have any active temp control cabinets or whatever yet. Using WL029 Kolsch yeast that gives lager like flavor balance with a bit of crispness on the back. This, in combination with malts & hops used in producing lagers to get something relatively close...a " hybrid" as I came to call them. I simulate lagering by putting the bottles in the fridge for some 2 weeks minimum, maybe longer. Seems to work OK. I also try to ferment in the yeast's sweet spot, or ideal range. In the case of WL029, 65-69F. S-04 I've fermented at 60-68F or so.
At fridge time, at least 5 days for ales in my experiences to allow time for any chill haze to form & settle out like a fog. Besides allowing the trub & yeast to compact on the bottom of the bottles, which has the added benefit of cleaning up the flavors a bit & clearing nicely.

 

[MyQuL]

The problem is that the cold temperatures are required in order to get some of the compounds to actually form, so that they can precipitate out. For example, chill haze. If you never chill the beer, chill haze will never form, and will never fall out of solution. You have to cause it to form first (by chilling the beer), so that it can start to fall to the bottom.

That said, you can "lager" in the keg. Just package the beer as normal, put it in your keezer/kegerator, hook it up to CO2, and ... don't drink it for a while.

So in that case I could put 1 easy keg at a time in my domestic fridge for say a week to form any compouds that require cold temps (e.g. chill haze) then the remaining largering time would be at room temps (albeit for 2-3 months)?

 

[kombat]

The problem is that if you chill the keg and lager it for a couple of weeks, yes, things will fall out of solution and it will clear up. But when you move the keg to take it back out, you're going to disturb that sediment and mix a lot of them back into solution.

Lagering at room temperature doesn't really do anything. I suppose it will help clarity a little bit, as the yeast settle out, but there's really not much point to just sitting a keg in the corner of your basement for 3 months. Again, even if things settle out, they're going to get mixed back up again as soon as you move the keg back into a fridge.

To really benefit from lagering, you need to either rack the beer to another container after having let it sit at cold temperatures for weeks, or not disturb the keg once it's undergone lagering.

 

[Yooper]

So in that case I could put 1 easy keg at a time in my domestic fridge for say a week to form any compouds that require cold temps (e.g. chill haze) then the remaining largering time would be at room temps (albeit for 2-3 months)?

Storing at room temperature is aging, not "lagering".

during lagering, things are happening that are not simply maturation/aging of the beer.

From braukaiser.com http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers (excellent site for information!!!!!):

"When the beer is conditioned at low temperatures various processes take place that lead to the smooth character which is expected from a lager:
Proteins and polyphenols (tannins) form agglomerations (basically bind with each other to form larger molecules) which become insoluble and precipitate out of solution. [Nguyen 2007]
Hop polyphenols will drop out leading to milder hop bitterness
Yeast sediment which cleans up the beer and removes the yeasty smell and taste associated with young beer
Some of the alcohols and acids form esters in the beer which leads to new flavor compounds. This process is very slow and becomes only significant after more than 12 weeks [Narziss 2005].
Some yeast activity may be present which leads to further clean-up and extract reduction of the beer. I oftentimes see another extract drop of 0.1 - 0.2 Plato over the course of a few weeks."

 

[cantrell00]

Storing at room temperature is aging, not "lagering".

during lagering, things are happening that are not simply maturation/aging of the beer.

From braukaiser.com http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers (excellent site for information!!!!!):

"When the beer is conditioned at low temperatures various processes take place that lead to the smooth character which is expected from a lager:
Proteins and polyphenols (tannins) form agglomerations (basically bind with each other to form larger molecules) which become insoluble and precipitate out of solution. [Nguyen 2007]
Hop polyphenols will drop out leading to milder hop bitterness
Yeast sediment which cleans up the beer and removes the yeasty smell and taste associated with young beer
Some of the alcohols and acids form esters in the beer which leads to new flavor compounds. This process is very slow and becomes only significant after more than 12 weeks [Narziss 2005].
Some yeast activity may be present which leads to further clean-up and extract reduction of the beer. I oftentimes see another extract drop of 0.1 - 0.2 Plato over the course of a few weeks."

Thanks for posting this. Very informative & I agree about that site. Tons of info.

 

[MyQuL]

The problem is that if you chill the keg and lager it for a couple of weeks, yes, things will fall out of solution and it will clear up. But when you move the keg to take it back out, you're going to disturb that sediment and mix a lot of them back into solution.

Lagering at room temperature doesn't really do anything. I suppose it will help clarity a little bit, as the yeast settle out, but there's really not much point to just sitting a keg in the corner of your basement for 3 months. Again, even if things settle out, they're going to get mixed back up again as soon as you move the keg back into a fridge.

To really benefit from lagering, you need to either rack the beer to another container after having let it sit at cold temperatures for weeks, or not disturb the keg once it's undergone lagering.

So in that case I think my best option is to do something similar to Unionrdr's pseudo lagering method instead and use bottles not mini kegs and just put the bottles in the fridge for a couple of weeks in batches

 

[unionrdr]

Mini kegs might work too, but if all you have now are bottles, it works well. I do it that way, since I can't lager in a secondary.

 

[MyQuL]

Mini kegs might work too, but if all you have now are bottles, it works well. I do it that way, since I can't lager in a secondary.

I use both mini kegs and bottles but I got the impression from Kombat that moving the mini kegs about will disturb any precipitated out solids

 

[madscientist451]

As I understand thing lagering (or cold conditioning) is done to blend and smooth the flavours of the beer. But doesn't this happen anyway at non-lagering temps given enough time? Or does it happen 'better' at lagering temps?

Check out the Brulosopher method for fast lagering:

http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/