What's my infection?

[neilpcraven]

Hi all,
It seems I've got an infection somewhere in my brewing process and I'd like some help to identify it.
No visual clues, so sorry, no pics.

I'm getting an off flavour but no off smell. I can't describe it very well. It's not nasty but it's not super nice. Maybe like old hay, but not as grassy? If it were more mellow it wouldn't be a bad flavour in a beer. The flavour hits you on first sip, and also leaves the mouth very dry, almost like tannin astringency. It's not sour/bitter astringency either. After half a glass of beer or so, it becomes less noticeable - I guess your mouth adjusts to it?

I'm certain it's an infection because I have had this off flavour in two batches of cider (brewed with very different raw ingredients at different times, with mostly different equipment) and now in one batch of beer.

I'm using RO water with nothing weird about the chemistry.
As far as sanitation, I've been generously cleaning with One-step (can't get star-san here) so I have a feeling this is something that is resistant to that sort of 'sanitation'.

Since it's affected my cider as well as the beer I guess it's something that lives in abundance in the area where I brew - the FV for the cider was brand new and it's not like it needs to be open for long when you chuck in the cider ingredients, which is unfortunate as it's gonna be an uphill struggle for any brew

 

[eluterio]

Pbw everything then buy online some star san. I dont use one step but have used the other two and this would be a great place to start. Im figuring your picking up wild yeast from somewhere.

 

[indianajns]

If you are cleaning and sanitizing everything properly you may want to consider Diacetyl from fermentation issues. I too had what I would call a hay flavor and an astringency/dry mothfeel in 2 beers that I attributed to diacetyl due to ineffective fermentation practices, (improper temps/kegged too early, etc). I have since lengthened my fermentation times and added fermentation control and have not had that off flavor since. You didn't mention fermentation but you may want to check to make sure your beers are completley fermenting out and you guve the yeasties time to clean up any Diacetyl in your brews. Just a thought....

 

[neilpcraven]

Thanks for the replies guys.
I would buy starsan if I could - but I'm in south Brazil which means I can't get it for a reasonable price, even via the internets (40 USD for 8oz here, plus shipping). It seems I'm going to have to nuke everything with bleach in the mean time.

It could be diacetyl but I followed temperature by the book. Had 4 weeks in primary at 64f for Safale 04 so if it's diacetyl flavours I doubt it's from the yeast I pitched. It's bottle conditioning now so maybe that will clean it up?

 

[eluterio]

If you fermented at 68 for 4 weeks maybe the off flavor is from leaving it on the yeast too long that will give you some off flavors basically the dead yeast cells contributing to a nasty taste and other things.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[neilpcraven]

Doubt it's that - the cider used Nottingham and was on there for 2 and had the same off flavour.

 

[eluterio]

I dont think its Diacetyl and if you had it in the cider and yeast was only on for 2 weeks. Have you researched one step to see if this flavor character has happened before? Maybe misusing the one step some how. I would start from scratch. Keep close tabs or notes on your process after boil. Im sorry but I really think this is all from sanitation issues if you had two different batches, one cider, one beer, having the same distinct taste.

Using RO water is great and the ingredients are not the issues Ive got to point the finger on the sanitation. I would love to help you figure this one out.

 

[eluterio]

To also add one step from what im reading isnt a sanitizer just a cleanser. if you cant get star san use bleach to sanitize. Might be extra work but worth it.

 

[neilpcraven]

Yep, I agree it's sanitation. I'm just curious about which beastie it is that's got to my brew.

 

[eluterio]

it could be anything!

 

[progmac]

it sounds like some kind of wild yeast. how is the head on the beer? infections will often leave a huge thin head (overcarbed) or no head at all.

ask around and see if you can find sodium percarbonate and sodium metasilicate (sold in the US as OxyClean and TSP Substitute). you can mix them at a 3/1 ratio and you have PBW, a very very good cleaner. Sodium percarbonate is also very very close to being a sanitizer.

 

[neilpcraven]

Ok, well I guess I'll just leave it in the bottles for a while and see what this foreign beastie does to the beer.

 

[djfriesen]

On the chance it is an infection, keep the possibility of bottle bombs in mind.

 

[neilpcraven]

Yep
They're locked safely in the fridge at a controlled temp, and there's nothing else delicate in there. I opened one two days ago and they're not hugely carbed. Yet...

 

[Trox]

Can you get Iodophor cheaper? Would be a much better to sanitize with that than using bleach.

 

[neilpcraven]

Good news everyone!
I've just discovered that sour cream pringles mask whatever the off-flavour is, so I guess I'll just need to keep a stock of them for whenever I open one of these brews