What you need to know about chocolate for brewing

[tesilential]

I recently have been creating my own liquid extracts at home (chocolate, banana, and bacon to start with). For the chocolate, I used two tablespoons of cocoa powder and dissolved it in 2 ounces vodka and 1 ounce purified water in a glass jar. It's been sitting for a little over a week and I plan on filtering it next weekend. Every day I give it a shake and take a whiff and it smells very chocolatey, like the sweet, not bitter kind. My eventual plan is to brew a chocolate stout or porter and add the extract at bottling. I've read in previous posts that some people have gotten an artificial chocolate taste by this method but I didn't know if they had made their own extract or used store bought. Please give me some input.

I would read a thread about making extracts <hint><hint>.

 

[starman]

Whole Foods sells "Cacao Nibs" raw chocolate nibs. Based on comments it looks like i should roast these before adding to a FBS clone. Can anyone suggest a temp and time for this? Im not sure if ill be able to see them 'toast'

Thanks.

 

[Alchemist42]

No, you won't be able to see them toast. But you can smell them, and that is your best indicator. It's all dependent on how much you roast, but 300 F for 20 minutes in your oven will get you quite far along. Look for a nice baking brownie smell.

Be slightly aware though that there is a 'raw' chocolate movement going on and many raw nibs are very low fermented and have very little chocolate flavor even when roasted.

 

[starman]

Movement to not ferment... What the heck is wrong with people?

Thanks! I'd already opened the bag so guess I'll toast and see.

 

[Alchemist42]

Movement to not ferment... What the heck is wrong with people?

Thanks! I'd already opened the bag so guess I'll toast and see.

Noting you may be asking a rhetorical question....

There was a study at some point back by Mars that showed that chocolate made OVER fermented cocoa beans had less nutrients and anti-oxidants than properly fermented cocoa beans. In very classic fringe movement style, the notion came about that if that therefore if you followed that rationale all the well that non-fermented just has to be the best....with no documentation to back it up.

I'm now kicking myself for not saving the study, as I now can not find it, but there was data indicating that in fact, non-fermented beans did have more total anti-oxidants....wait for it....but it was massively less digestible (and even worse when not roasted) and the net digestible amount was far less than even over fermented beans.

/rant
/soapbox

 

[jabanico]

Is there any major difference in flavor or content between brewing chocolate as described in this thread, and from boiling cocoa liquor, as it is done in cacao growing countries? In the Philippines, we simply boil tabilla (Spanish word for tablets) and stir, as grinders are not common in Philippine homes.

 

[Edcculus]

You could very well boil the cocoa liquor. Since the cocoa liquor has a lot of fat in it, you might have some problems down the line. I think people are having a lot of luck with the unground nibs because although they still have the same amount of fat as the liquor, you are essentially soaking up the essence and not really extracting much if any cocoa butter.

Its been a while since I read the entire thread, so if people are chucking bakers chocolate into the boil, then go right ahead with the cocoa liquor.

 

[Gofastr1]

I've only used cacao nibs, but have had commercial beers made with cocoa powder and, IMO, the nibs provide a much richer, dark chocolate flavor that seems better blended with the flavor from dark grains in the bill. May be psychological, but the beer brewed w/cocoa powder seemed, well, powdery.

My best success with nibs to date has been a chocolate cherry stout. This was a big beer at 9% ABV, formulated to give just a hint of cherry. I used 7oz of nibs, and 1 & 1/2 vanilla bean per each 5g secondary for 2 months, then kegged 5g, bottled 5g.

A month and a half after packaging, the chocolate flavor was huge. 6 months after packaging it was still very notable, but had mellowed and blended. Took silver in specialty category in a field of 63 entries. Entered twice more over next six months in pretty big comps, taking a bronze and finally a gold.

I never knew nibs had so much fat - had I, I may have opted out fearing the fat would lead to off flavors (rancid?) after a lot of time in the bottle. But I just cracked a bottle of this beer, now nearly 2 years since packaging, and it is still really, really awesome - though I am biased...

 

[Edcculus]

Well, nibs do have fat (cocoa butter), but at this point, I doubt much is extracted when soaked in the beer since fats are generally not water soluble. If you take some nibs and grind them up in a mortar and pestle, you will find that it makes a paste, as opposed to coffee beans, which will make a powder.

 

[FutureJack]

So I've read through this entire thread. Thanks for the all the great info. However, I can't honestly say I have a strong feeling one way or the other on how to proceed with the RIS I am about to brew. Since I ordered 4 oz of Ghana Cacao nibs from Northern Brewer, I think I am still going to go ahead and use them.

I've seen a lot of back and forth about roasting the nibs vs. soaking them in alcohol for a day or two. I was orginally going to soak them in bourbon or vodka and add them to secondary. I don't usually use a secondary (when I dry hop, I just add straight to primary), but since this beer is going to be in the 10% range, and I want to use the nibs, it sounds like this may be the way to go so I can get the beer off the yeast cake and then give the nibs more time to soak into the beer.

I'm not looking for a chocolate stout - just want to add another layer of complexity to a beer that will already have a lot of stuff going on.


So just to re-open this discussion, would you recommend I roast the nibs (if so, what temp and for how long), or soak them in alcophol for a day or two? I would probably leave beer in primary for 3 weeks or so, then rack onto nibs in secondary and let that sit for 5 or 6 weeks before bottling.

Anyone notice any big red flags with this plan?

 

[carguy13]

i know this is really old, but i just wanted to say this is awesome information and thanks to the OP

 

[HopHoarder]

Great info here all around. I recently purchased some organic what look to be good quality cacao nibs to experiment with. I originally was just going to make a milk stout but thought cacao nibs would add a nice chocolate profile to it...kind of like a chocolate milk stout.
This is experimental but here's what I did yesterday...
I put 3/4 cup of nibs, 1/2 cup of Jim Bean bourbon and 1/4 cup of water and coarsely ground the mixture with a magic bullet. I boiled 8oz of lactose in 2c of water and added all of this into my secondary with roughly 3 gallons of the stout. I'm gonna let this sit for 10 days or so and bottle it. Right now I have some new krausen from the secondary fermentation from the sugars. I'll report back on how this little experiment worked.

 

[sparticus]

This might be posted someplace already but Dutch Processed cocoa powder may be a better option to try to keep the bitterness down. Going to try it on my next batch of Moose Drool clone

 

[MuddyCreek]

One of my better beers uses cocoa powder, boiled in water and then cooled added to the beer at kegging.

Admittedly, the flavor addition is probably less noticeable than the aroma addition, but it does make a fine beer.

 

[JasonDawson]

Great and clear information and is finally reached to me also, I have though about chocolate overtone beer and one guy previous forum posted his personal recipe also but I have to admit, I haven't tried it before. Any good chocolate including beer out there for sale, anywhere?

 

[zrule]

Bump

 

[sleewok]

I recently brewed a milk stout (http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/big-honkin-chocolate-milk-stout-all-grain). I did a 10 gallon batch with 2lbs lactose (. I split the batch into 5 gallons with just milk stout, and the other 5 I added chocolate nibs. I haven't worked with the powder, but here is my experience with nibs for this batch. Both batches have been kegged and carbed (the milk stout is chilled, while the chocolate is conditioning still).

I ordered the nibs off of amazon (8oz, see link below). I tasted the nibs when I got them in. I really liked the taste, as in, I could eat them plain. I'm not sure if that is anything significant, but it could have some influence on the type of nib you want to use. I wouldn't use anything that didn't taste good!

I then ground the nibs to almost a powder in my coffee grinder. I dumped it all in a ball mason jar, and then covered in vodka (and shook it up). I let it site for a few days. The result was a solid mass of chocolate that was clumped together. I could actually see some of the oil separated from the ground beans.

I scooped it all out into a fine pantyhose sock and dropped it into the keg (held by floss).

It has been sitting for about a month now at about 65 deg. Here is what I have noticed...

HEAD - There is ZERO impact on head retention. In fact it seems like the opposite. There is a very thick/creamy head. I'm attributing this somewhat to the lactose. The head is also much darker than the milk stout version.

Regarding head retention. I believe the reason that it is not having a significant impact is because the fat is solid, and is not absorbing into the beer. If I had boiled in the nibs, then I think the result could be different. However, I have no fear of nibs impacting my head retention when used in secondary.

TASTE - The chocolate character is very subtle, but definitely noticeable compared to the milk stout. There is some grittiness, but I'm sure that will go away once I chill it. The original milk stout is a little too sweet for my taste. I was actually planning on scaling back the lactose to compensate. HOWEVER, the chocolate version is perfect. There is a much better balance resulting from the bitterness imparted by the nibs.

Hopefully this will help some of you in deciding how to add chocolate. I've read for hours and there is clearly no right way to do it!

BTW, here is the link for the exact nibs that I ordered:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OQ4A3S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Hello]

Hopefully this will help some of you in deciding how to add chocolate. I've read for hours and there is clearly no right way to do it!

I wouldn't be so sad if this truly helpful write up contained a link to the nibs purchased from Amazon.

 

[MindenMan]

Here you are:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...eywords=cacao nibs&sprefix=cocoa+nibs,aps,277

 

[Hello]

Here you are:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...eywords=cacao nibs&sprefix=cocoa+nibs,aps,277

Funny guy. I was asking specifically what he used. Amazon and I are good friends, I could have done that.

 

[ultravista]

sleewok - did you roast the nibs or use them as-is?

Are the bins of cacao (not bags) roasted or not?

 

[MindenMan]

The nibs I used, I roasted them, crushed them, and then soaked them in vodka for a couple of weeks (I think), and I added all the vodka and all the nibs too. Unfortunately, I did something wrong and all the bottles were gushers. The beer tasted like chocolate candy, not the profile I wanted. I did add pure Vanilla and some lactose. I don't remember how much. This time, I added 8 oz of cocoa powder @ 10 minutes and will let the primary go for 3-4 weeks before I cold crash. By that time I will have nibs soaking in vodka, waiting to add to the bottling bucket. The roasted nibs do add a great flavor, but it is sort of one dimension, so I will use both this time, and see what I get.

 

[sleewok]

sleewok - did you roast the nibs or use them as-is?

Are the bins of cacao (not bags) roasted or not?

I used them as-is. The nibs that I ordered were dried/milled.

 

[ultravista]

The nibs I got are roughly crumbled. Would it help to crush them a bit to increase the surface area? Any problems with that?

 

[The_X-man19]

I heard once, and mind it could be urban legend... Chocolate in the U.S. (especially companies like Hershey) are actually allowed a certain amount of food grade wax in their chocolate. I may be crazy but I have noticed that plain chocolate in Canada (Quebec) actually tastes better than in the U.S. apparently for that reason. Allegedly they are not allowed to use such ingredients in Canada...

I seem to recall that Hershey's also uses soured milk in their chocolate, which is what gives it the distinct flavor compared to other milk chocolates. I saw it on Modern Marvels, I believe.

 

[Alchemist42]

It is indeed an urban legend. I've never seen chocolate listed with wax as an ingredient. Over refining can give chocolate a waxy texture, but it's not wax.

As for the sour milk. Another urban myth. The 'distinct' flavor is often from very poor grade beans, over roasted and over refined. That may well be the sour taste you note. I know I have. They have to use dry milk powder like everyone else, and to my knowledge, there are no soured dry milk powders...unless you could dry butter milk. But I can't see them using that as it is so much more expensive.

 

[Clankenbrew]

Any more updates on this thread. I just put nibs in my carboy on top of a stout. I was wondering how long i should keep them there.

 

[The_X-man19]

It is indeed an urban legend. I've never seen chocolate listed with wax as an ingredient. Over refining can give chocolate a waxy texture, but it's not wax.

As for the sour milk. Another urban myth. The 'distinct' flavor is often from very poor grade beans, over roasted and over refined. That may well be the sour taste you note. I know I have. They have to use dry milk powder like everyone else, and to my knowledge, there are no soured dry milk powders...unless you could dry butter milk. But I can't see them using that as it is so much more expensive.

From Wikipedia:

The process is a trade secret, but experts speculate that the milk is partially lipolyzed, producing butyric acid, which stabilizes the milk from further fermentation. This compound gives the product a particular sour, "tangy" taste, to which the US public has become accustomed, to the point that other manufacturers often add butyric acid to their milk chocolates.

Supporting article here. 4th and 5th paragraphs from the bottom.

 

[Clankenbrew]

I still don't see anything in this entire thread that says how long nibs should be left in the secondary. What happens if they are left too long?

 

[Spookgolds]

I still don't see anything in this entire thread that says how long nibs should be left in the secondary. What happens if they are left too long?

I recently made an imperial peppermint chocolate stout. I used 1.5oz nibs in the boil, then put 5oz in the secondary for 7 days. As far as leaving them "too long", I can't answer that. The stout turned out amazing BTW. It was a huge hit and didn't last long at all.