What you need to know about chocolate for brewing

[kyleobie]

I've had good results with cocoa powder. I bought the good stuff from my local Whole Foods. You need to compensate for the bitterness of the powder and plan your IBUs accordingly.

I tossed in 1 lb of powder during the last 5 minutes of the boil. I had issues with the powder clumping as well as scorching the bottom of the brewpot, but all was well in the end.

I added it to a sweet stout. I'm drinking the final product now and the lactose really balanced out the bitterness of the cocoa well. Together with the roasted barley and black patent, I get a kind of mocha latte feel. I used peppermint, too. The IBUs are somewhere in the mid 20s.

 

[BeerAtlas]

I use both nibs and powder in my chocolate beers, and this is how I use it:

I mix the powder with boiled water into a paste and add it to the primary/secondary along with the nibs.

From my experiments and experiences, the nibs add more of a cocoa aroma to the beer, and the powder adds the actual flavor. I always use the 100% Dutch process chocolate powder, and whatever nibs the lhbs has.

 

[Alchemist42]

Now if you really want to get technical, you need to look into what variety your cocoa is. In terms of coffee, forestaro=robusto, criollo=arabica. Unlike coffee though, criollo beans are VERY expensive and hard to grow. The are known for their earthy/fruity taste. Forestaro grows easily and is resistant to disease. It makes an inferior chocolate though. Most of the chocolate in production is of the Forestaro variety.

Very good summary Ecculus. I'd like to say though that the Foraster=robusta is not quite accurate, although an easy analogy for growth and disease resistance it breaks down at flavor - the important part. I wouldn't touch any robusta coffee. It's just to nasty and has too many aftertastes, but the reverse just isn't the case with Forastero. It can make an inferior chocolate but is by no mean has to. It general has big bold flavors. Criollo on the other hand is often light and delicate and again, can make a superior chocolate some of the worst and uninspired chocolate I've had has been Criollo. And finally, there is a huge variety of cocoa out there - the Trinatario. It's the hybrid blend of Forastero and Criollo - something coffee does not do. It's turning into the big boy as far as the new Artisan chocolate industry is concerned and all three varieties are being used well and prices have come way down.

Given how hard it is to get aggressive chocolate flavors into beers from nibs, using the strongest flavored nib I can find has served me well

John
Founding Alchemist
Chocolate Alchemy

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

I have nothing really scientific to add, but I had a friend make a chocolate stout using nibs. I am not sure if he used them in the boil or not, but I do know that he left them in the keg. The chocolate flavor was subtle at first, but by the time the beer had sat in the keg on the nibs for 6 months the beer no longer tasted like beer. It tasted like chocolate milk. It was not bad but was very weird because it was a creamy smooth chocolate milk taste in what was supposed to be a beer.

Ed

 

[Alchemist42]

That's a bit of empirical information that I've noticed to. It has something to do with the fact that a majority of the flavor and aroma compounds in chocolate are fat soluble (not unlike hops) and so it takes much longer for them to make their way into a wort or ale. My favorite addition is to fine grind the nibs (just shy of where the cocoa butter flows), add it to the mash, and then 'dry nib' for at least a month. I've never tried it as long as 6 months.

John
Founding Alchemist
Chocolate Alchemy

 

[celia19O5]

Oh now I know why brewing from chocolate is much more wonderful than others All is due to this interesting recipe !

 

[dennisowens41]

I attempted a Dogfish Theobroma-ish recipe, and bought some cacao beans from my LHBS. Didn't roast them, but cracked them with a rolling pin and dumped them in the boil at 10 minutes. Haven't tried the beer yet - it's still conditioning - but can't wait to give the finished product a taste.

Howd that Theobroma-ish clone work out? That is one of my favorite beers to drink, but seems a little challenging to brew...a lot going on there!

 

[swankyswede]

Howd that Theobroma-ish clone work out? That is one of my favorite beers to drink, but seems a little challenging to brew...a lot going on there!

Mehhhh not so great. It has barely any chocolate flavor, a hint of sweetness from the honey, and kind of a strange taste that I'm attributing to the peppers. The Theobroma is very tasty, but this one didn't work as expected. I guess that means more research is needed....

 

[Alchemist42]

Mehhhh not so great. It has barely any chocolate flavor, a hint of sweetness from the honey, and kind of a strange taste that I'm attributing to the peppers. The Theobroma is very tasty, but this one didn't work as expected. I guess that means more research is needed....

I would surmise it was to a large part because you did not roast the nibs. The majority of the chocolate flavor is not even produced until roasting. Raw nibs generally have a bit of a 'green' flavor I have found. Try a light toasting next time and you might have better luck.

John
Chocolate Alchemy

 

[rickyspalding]

is there a chemist in the house? maybe he or she can explain the best way to deal with this fatty substance in beer

 

[Alchemist42]

Chemist here. Sadly, that's the rub. I've not found a great way. It's that whole oil and water not mixing bit.

But I would like to ask for clarification of what you want. Do you want to know how to keep the cocoa butter out of your beer or how to properly extract the flavor contained therein?

 

[rickyspalding]

well i just started out brewing, my second beer i am doing a baltic porter (brewers best kit), and i just want to up the complexities abit, i dont want any over powering flavors taking away from everything else, i got a handle on the extra molasses, and the extra coffee flavor, yet to really research the cardamom and i know its very powerful, i keep thinking i have an idea for the chocolate, but it seems there are various results and a multitude of ideas...., i have raw cacao nibs, from what i have read i would think to roast them, then grind, and put about an oz of it in the secondary, just for alittle more choco flavor, but I am really fascinated by the choco various results, as in the future I would love to make some full out chocolate porters. Thanks for any help

 

[Alchemist42]

FYI, IMHO 1 oz isn't going to add anything. I have 8 oz of roasted nibs in a secondary right now, plus 8 oz were in the mash and I 'think' I notice something.

 

[whyrat]

For what it's worth, after several chocolate stout & chocolate porter attempts, I've been most satisfied with:
Adding coco powder in the boil (usually at the 5-10 min mark)
Adding a little bit of vanilla extract as well to compliment the flavor (in general when cooking it's rare to have cocoa powder without also vanilla)
Add some lactose sugar as well (non fermentable, so will add to the sweetness and mouthfeel of this finished beer)

Quantities vary, based on your taste... But I always have the above 3. I stopped using liquid chocolate extract at bottling time because it gave it an "artificial" taste IMHO

Lastly, don't use with too high a gravity beer. With high gravity beers the flavors just tend to get lost and it's not that different from any other imperial stout.

 

[rickyspalding]

rat, i keep hearing that, not to mess too much with high gravity beers, the baltic from brewers best is suppose to be between 7 to 7.5., i keep hearing i should just make as is, alchy, i understand what you are saying but i dont want to overblow the choco taste, its like i want to make a fine wine........ but dont know how too?!?!?

 

[Sebowski]

Southern Tier Choklat is the chocolate-iest beer I've ever had and it is 11%

Anyone have any insight into their process?

 

[Alchemist42]

Southern Tier Choklat is the chocolate-iest beer I've ever had and it is 11%

Anyone have any insight into their process?

I can't seem to find the reference anymore, but I believe it's extract based. I went looking when I tasted it and it had that funky extract aftertaste. I rather didn't care for it.

 

[doobliebop]

I did my last chocolate stout using carob instead of chocolate powder. Threw it in the boil at 5 mins. Carob tastes just like chocolate, won't be a problem if people have alergies to chocolate and has 0 fat content. I told people it was a chocolate stout and everyone remarked on the great chocolate flavor! I also like throwing a couple vanilla beans (split) in the secondary when I'm using "chocolate" and a touch of lactose as well.

 

[Alchemist42]

Great info, I know that Deschutes uses Cocoa Nibs at the end of the boil for their Black Butte XX(I)

Edit: ok, I guess ChshreCat got to that before me.

I have in my primary right now a Chocolate Ale. Based on this idea:

http://chocolatealchemy.com/2011/10/09/brewing-cocoa/

I put into the very end of the boil 2.5 lbs of roasted, ground cocoa beans (husk and all due to all the water extratables in the husk) in my 5 gallons.

FINALLY, after playing with this for years, there is SOLID chocolate in my ale. Not just something very subtle. And based on the foamy head in the fermenter I would say I will have no issue with head retention due to any cocoa butter - I left it as a film in the kettle.

 

[jsguitar]

I'll be very interested in hearing your updates on this batch. I've not used Chocolate in brewing yet and would like to have success the first time out.

 

[FL_Brewer]

Sebo, Southern Tier uses a bunch of artificial extracts in their brews. Pumpking, Choklat, etc. Around here some people love the taste. Respectfully, to me they tend to taste fake. I don't know, depends on what you like.

Love the post, I've made a handful of Milk Stouts. Never used Nibs, but I may try. I've always used around 4-6 oz of Dutch Processed Cocoa Powder at knockout, along with a lb of Lactose. I've really liked the results, It really produces a Cocoa taste that balances out the Lactose, and other roasted malts that may be used in the beer.

With that being said, for those of you looking for over the top Chocolate taste (like candy sweet), don't waste your time or money with cocoa powder (or nibs I'm assuming). Just add Chocolate Extract to a secondary. Just my experience.

 

[ChillWill]

Hi Everyone, I'm still confused about the whole chocolate thing, have used nibs, didn't get much flavour (probably didn't use enough).

Can I use this:
Cocoa Powder | Cooking | Green & Black's Organic Chocolate

I've tried using cocoa powder in my first batch a long time ago (when I didn't know what I was doing) and it was very oily (it was a cheap brand)

 

[Alchemist42]

I specifically would not use that one due to the alkaline treatment and actual sodium carbonate in the powder.

Aside from the (with the chance of repeating myself, but maybe not) I would try nibs again - but presumably with three major changes. First, in my experience you need quite a bit. I use 6-8 oz per gallon. Yep, that much. There is very little water soluble in cocoa. So you need quite a bit. 2nd - don't use just nib. Go for husk and nib. Basically the whole cocoa bean coarsely ground up. 3rd - put it in a bag and toss it into the wort right at the end of the boil like an aroma hop addition.

That's my $0.03 worth

 

[ChillWill]

Do you take the bag of nibs out when putting in primary, or leave them in there?

I'm looking at a FBS clone recipe, and it calls for:
2.5 oz. (71 g) chocolate chips
2 oz. (57 g) unsweetened chocolate baking nibs

At the end of the boil. What would that translate into in just nibs?

I could also have some of this that I've been using in cooking:
Willies Cacao 100% Cacao Venezuela Black Rio Caribe Superior for Cooking from Real Foods Edinburgh, Scotland, UK online web shop

 

[Alchemist42]

I take them out. Basically, you are making a 'brewed cocoa' with your wort. I just leave them in during the cooling. That way any cocoa butter remains on top and very little makes it into the brew to wreck havoc with your head retention.

This is the kind of thing I am suggesting you use:

Chocolate Alchemy » Brewing Cocoa

BTW, I want to point out I'm not here trying to hawk my own product, but I DO sell this. I brew, but happen to do chocolate also.

That said, the more fine the cocoa is that you put in, the more issue you are going to have with the cocoa butter, hence the coarse grinding suggestion. And also the husks provide quite a bit of of extractables.

I've tried a ton of chocolates, sweetened and unsweetened and the always sound so much better than the result.

How would I translate that? 2.5 + 2 = 4.5 oz. Given the lower surface area, I would double it and round to 10 oz. That's what I would try. All these recipes I see calling for 1 and 2 oz just make me shake my head. The best comparison I could make would be to add 1 oz of whole coffee to 5 gallons of cold beer. There is so little there to extract that it just won't do any good, and that would probably give you more flavor than 2 oz of nibs.

I hope that helps.

 

[ChillWill]

Hi Alchemist, thanks for the info!

I've got some cacoa nibs leftover from a previous batch (not much), so have been playing around with it. If I add hot water... nothing. If I grind it up a bit... chocolatey (not like Hersheys chocolatey, but cacao nib-esque... well, you know).

When I grind, there is a little oil on the surface (if I grind quite small). When I transfer from my kettle (ie. a bit pot) to my primary, I usually do it through a sieve/pasta strainer to collect the hops, then run the wort back through the hops to filter it out. Would this catch the oil? I'm doing a Breakfast stout clone btw, and not really sure how much chocolate I want in it (because I've never had it, but like the look of the recipe).

Recommendations?
I was considering these:
Creative Nature Cacao Nibs 300 g: Amazon.co.uk: Grocery
I can't really find them with husks etc, not really spoiled for choice in the UK for cacao it would appear.

I ground some up, ran them through an espresso maker, added a teaspoon sugar and steamed milk and am drinking it now... very nutty.

 

[Alchemist42]

Yep, almost no flavor with just a few nibs - I think people use them with a belief they will work, but never check it out. I just won't ever believe 4 oz nibs will contribute any noticeable flavor to a 5 gal batch, but I see it all the time. They just are not like 4 oz of black malt or something.

If you get your wort down to 70-75 F, the cocoa butter should solidify and be caught very nicely on the hop filter bed. It's close to what I have done.

And with using nibs and/or husk, you really don't have to worry about too much chocolate flavor. Back dropped against a stout, the flavor will just plateau.

Does that help?

Hi Alchemist, thanks for the info!

I've got some cacoa nibs leftover from a previous batch (not much), so have been playing around with it. If I add hot water... nothing. If I grind it up a bit... chocolatey (not like Hersheys chocolatey, but cacao nib-esque... well, you know).

When I grind, there is a little oil on the surface (if I grind quite small). When I transfer from my kettle (ie. a bit pot) to my primary, I usually do it through a sieve/pasta strainer to collect the hops, then run the wort back through the hops to filter it out. Would this catch the oil? I'm doing a Breakfast stout clone btw, and not really sure how much chocolate I want in it (because I've never had it, but like the look of the recipe).

Recommendations?
I was considering these:
Creative Nature Cacao Nibs 300 g: Amazon.co.uk: Grocery
I can't really find them with husks etc, not really spoiled for choice in the UK for cacao it would appear.

I ground some up, ran them through an espresso maker, added a teaspoon sugar and steamed milk and am drinking it now... very nutty.

 

[ChillWill]

Yeah that helps, if I get the nibs I was looking at, should I grind them further, and by how much?

 

[Alchemist42]

Personally, if you go that way, I would both toast them further (it seems to brighten the flavor just a tough to re-roast them), grind them somewhat more, and frankly use them all.

 

[Thirstin4aburstin]

I recently have been creating my own liquid extracts at home (chocolate, banana, and bacon to start with). For the chocolate, I used two tablespoons of cocoa powder and dissolved it in 2 ounces vodka and 1 ounce purified water in a glass jar. It's been sitting for a little over a week and I plan on filtering it next weekend. Every day I give it a shake and take a whiff and it smells very chocolatey, like the sweet, not bitter kind. My eventual plan is to brew a chocolate stout or porter and add the extract at bottling. I've read in previous posts that some people have gotten an artificial chocolate taste by this method but I didn't know if they had made their own extract or used store bought. Please give me some input.