What would you call this? Cider ale?

[almyz125]

Hi there! I made this stuff today without doing much research on what to call it or what it is. In the end I hope it is a cider with beer characteristics as opposed to an apple ale, which from what I gather is an apple flavored beer.

Procedure:
Purchased 5 gallons of UV treated unpreserved cider from orchard. Steeped 2.5 lbs of American 2 row in 2.25 gallons of cider at 152f for 75 min. Then brought up to boil for 20 minutes.

Addition schedule:

• @20 0.25oz Nugget
• @20 0.25oz Chinook
• @15 min 1tbs cinnamon powder
• @5min 0.50oz Nugget
• @0min 0.50oz Cacade
• @0min 1lb honey
• @0min 8.5oz light brown sugar

Whirlpool for 10 minutes then cool. Add remaining cider after airerating each jug thoroughly. Mix wort and cider in kettle to take a gravity reading. Original specific gravity was 1.078. Pitched Danst Nottingham.

Anyway I hope it comes out good, hopefully like a cider with some malt and hop characteristics in the background. What would you guys call it? Pic below after pitch.

 

[slym2none]

Sounds like graf.

 

[chickypad]

Right, a cider-beer hybrid would be graf. Though I've not heard of actually doing the mash with cider - most combine the wort and cider in the fermenter. Did you check a gravity to see if you got some fermenatables from the grain? I'm thinking the pH of juice would screw up your conversion.

 

[almyz125]

The cider SG was 1.048 after steeping the wort was ~ 1.060. I did not write it down but I remember it being much higher than straight cider.

 

[chickypad]

As far as I know there aren't established guidelines, but looks like folks can do up to 80% cider with just a little malt (see links). At any rate, good luck with it!

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/how-to-make-graf-a-cider-beer-hybrid/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=117117

 

[Lefou]

I'd call this graf, too, because the majority of your fermentables comes from cider - and you're using an ale yeast.

When you get into hybrid territory things get odd. I'm assuming the saccharified 2 row malt will boost diastatic power a bit. I've gone this route and found S-04 ale yeast fermented a lot more vigorously in graf than it would in just plain cider.

 

[almyz125]

I'd call this graf, too, because the majority of your fermentables comes from cider - and you're using an ale yeast.

When you get into hybrid territory things get odd. I'm assuming the saccharified 2 row malt will boost diastatic power a bit. I've gone this route and found S-04 ale yeast fermented a lot more vigorously in graf than it would in just plain cider.

Interesting. I love experimenting.

 

[laredo7mm]

I'd call this graf, too, because the majority of your fermentables comes from cider - and you're using an ale yeast.

When you get into hybrid territory things get odd. I'm assuming the saccharified 2 row malt will boost diastatic power a bit. I've gone this route and found S-04 ale yeast fermented a lot more vigorously in graf than it would in just plain cider.

I don't understand your correlation between diastatic power and increased fermentation activity. The sugars in apple juice don't need to be converted by the enzymes in the grain.

I would think that the increased vigor of the fermentation would be due to the nutrients that the grains provide for the yeast as opposed to a straight cider where nutrients are usually lacking.

 

[Lefou]

You're right, the ale yeast will use maltose from the grain and that's something the apple juice lacks. The two row converts itself AND provides an extra sugar boost with enzymes you might not get with some crystal malts. Some of the graf variations on HBT never recommend using a base malt - or mashing your grain and cider together.
The graf I attempted to make had Vienna malt and was more wort than apple juice, so it was more ale than cider. I had to use a blow-off for it ... so yeah, the grain helps boost fermentation.

 

[almyz125]

I was going to say that I read somewhere that cider has insufficient nutrients compared to grain. The apple ripening process should have converted most starches to sugar so unless the cider was made from young apples there was probably very little starch in the cider. At that the cider was on the sweet side when I tasted it.

I am over 24 hours in and the yeast are hammering away, I am seeing similar airlock activity to most of my ales. That being said the krausen is much lower and I don't think I'll need a blow off. I'm thinking the lower krausen has more to do with the thin body of the brew relative to a normal ale as opposed to nutrients or diastatic power.

Airlock activity video.