What Makes Traditional Grisette Low-Alcohol?

[max.dean]

I've been on the search for low-alcohol options that don't involve heating or industrial equipment, and after a search I found a recipe for Grisette here: How to Brew Grisette: The Ultimate Homebrewers Guide In 2021. But it seems like it left out some details and I have an overall question - what makes such a traditional Grisette recipe low-alcohol? I am not clear from my research on what the characteristics are. Many recipes available for Grisette are actually 4-5%+ ABV. There are lots written about it being traditionally 2-3% ABV, but I am having difficulty finding such recipes, or to understand how I can manipulate a 4-5% ABV recipe down to 2-3% ABV. I would value further guidance on a good recipe or on what those characteristics might be so I can try to construct one myself. Thanks!

 

[VikeMan]

But it seems like it left out some details and I have an overall question - what makes such a traditional Grisette recipe low-alcohol?

For a grisette, low(er) alcohol generally comes from using less malt/grains. For beers in general, low(er) alcohol can come from:

- overall less malt/grains
- higher relative proportions of highly kilned/roasted malts
- less attenuative yeast strains
- higher mash temperatures
- shorter mash lengths

 

[Coookies58]

https://bisonbrew.com/how-to-brew-grisette/I found this site pretty helpful. The recipe there is still almost 4% but a good benchmark to move around from. Mostly the traditional styles were brewed light to be a refreshing, but ultimately safe thing to drink (bad water supply). That’s why they were 2-3%. Alcohol killed the buggies.
I like a growers with a light funk and high carbonation.

 

[madscientist451]

If you are interested in recipes for 2-3% beers, check out the Basic Brewing Audio and Video podcasts. I'm pretty sure they covered Grisette at some point.
Grisette was a farmhouse style and farmers didn't have fancy ingredients, they brewed with what they had. Malting grain was extra work and cost money if they paid for it, so its likely they used an un-malted grain like wheat to stretch out what malted material they had to obtain.
A simple recipe 3% ABV for 5 gallons would be 4 lbs pilsner or 2 row, 1 lb of wheat malted or not and 1 lb oats. Toss in an ounce of Strisselpalt hops at 60 minutes, more later if you want to. What yeast to use? It depends what flavor you are looking for so that will be up to you.
I've brewed some Grisette and tried some commercial examples and honestly, I can see why some beer styles caught on in modern times and some styles faded away. In its traditional form, its just a simple low flavor, low abv beer.

 

[max.dean]

https://bisonbrew.com/how-to-brew-grisette/I found this site pretty helpful. The recipe there is still almost 4% but a good benchmark to move around from. Mostly the traditional styles were brewed light to be a refreshing, but ultimately safe thing to drink (bad water supply). That’s why they were 2-3%. Alcohol killed the buggies.
I like a growers with a light funk and high carbonation.

Thanks, I had looked at that site. But they seemed to leave out details of a big part of their grainbill, so I wasn't sure what the missing % might have been composed of, if it mattered. I'll take a second look at examining it with the perspective of other posters here.

 

[max.dean]

For a grisette, low(er) alcohol generally comes from using less malt/grains. For beers in general, low(er) alcohol can come from:

- overall less malt/grains
- higher relative proportions of highly kilned/roasted malts
- less attenuative yeast strains
- higher mash temperatures
- shorter mash lengths

When you say 'less malt/grains', do you mean more water per quantity of grain? What do you think an appropriate ratio would be in this circumstance? Do you have a calculator you trust from somewhere about how mash length affects extraction (and thus sugars for alcohol)? Most of my recipes call for 60 minutes, and so did the one many people linked.

 

[VikeMan]

When you say 'less malt/grains', do you mean more water per quantity of grain?

Less malt per batch of beer. Normally you don't increase water, because that would also increase the batch size.

Do you have a calculator you trust from somewhere about how mash length affects extraction (and thus sugars for alcohol)? Most of my recipes call for 60 minutes, and so did the one many people linked.

I use BrewCipher, a free excel workbook download. Mash length isn't manipulated to influence extraction per se. You always want to extract all of the sugars and dextrins. Mash length does affect the mix of sugars and dextrins. The longer the mash, the more fermentable sugars and the less unfermentable dextrins. So a shorter mash will result in less fermentability and thus a slightly lower ABV, but it's not because there was less extraction, it's because of the nature of the carbs extracted.

 

[madscientist451]

I use the Brewer's Friend recipe builder, the numbers have always worked out for me:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator
When I put my suggested 3% ABV recipe above in, I put the numbers in the Brewer's Friend calculator to make sure I wasn't steering you in the wrong direction.
If you have an established recipe for a 5% beer you can just reduce all the ingredients by 20% and it will come out about right. I would suggest brewing smaller batches when doing this so you can try it and make changes on the re-brew.

 

[max.dean]

If you are interested in recipes for 2-3% beers, check out the Basic Brewing Audio and Video podcasts. I'm pretty sure they covered Grisette at some point.
Grisette was a farmhouse style and farmers didn't have fancy ingredients, they brewed with what they had. Malting grain was extra work and cost money if they paid for it, so its likely they used an un-malted grain like wheat to stretch out what malted material they had to obtain.
A simple recipe 3% ABV for 5 gallons would be 4 lbs pilsner or 2 row, 1 lb of wheat malted or not and 1 lb oats. Toss in an ounce of Strisselpalt hops at 60 minutes, more later if you want to. What yeast to use? It depends what flavor you are looking for so that will be up to you.
I've brewed some Grisette and tried some commercial examples and honestly, I can see why some beer styles caught on in modern times and some styles faded away. In its traditional form, its just a simple low flavor, low abv beer.

Thanks for the additional insights. Would you go around 2 quarts water per pound of grain (I'm using an all-in-one system from Anvil)? Or would you increase the ratio of water to grain? Or are the oats the driver here in reducing sugar content in the wort?

Unrelated, any reason you suggested Strisselpalt in particular? I do have Bavaria Mandarina laying-around that would have similar citrus notes. One of the recipes I found for Grisette suggested Styrian Goldings (which I haven't used before), so I have that on-hand as well. I have a saison yeast planned for this brew.

 

[max.dean]

Less malt per batch of beer. Normally you don't increase water, because that would also increase the batch size.



I use BrewCipher, a free excel workbook download. Mash length isn't manipulated to influence extraction per se. You always want to extract all of the sugars and dextrins. Mash length does affect the mix of sugars and dextrins. The longer the mash, the more fermentable sugars and the less unfermentable dextrins. So a shorter mash will result in less fermentability and thus a slightly lower ABV, but it's not because there was less extraction, it's because of the nature of the carbs extracted.

Thanks for the guidance. Outside of this recipe, that seems like information for me to learn about further anyway.

 

[max.dean]

I use the Brewer's Friend recipe builder, the numbers have always worked out for me:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator
When I put my suggested 3% ABV recipe above in, I put the numbers in the Brewer's Friend calculator to make sure I wasn't steering you in the wrong direction.
If you have an established recipe for a 5% beer you can just reduce all the ingredients by 20% and it will come out about right. I would suggest brewing smaller batches when doing this so you can try it and make changes on the re-brew.

How does reducing my ingredients by some proportion not result in the same beer, just at a smaller batch size? Is there some part of the recipe that I would keep the same?

 

[VikeMan]

Is there some part of the recipe that I would keep the same?

The water. Actually, you'd use slightly less water because you'd be losing less water to grain absorption. But you wouldn't reduce the water proportionally.