What makes "red?"

[CryoEng]

Hello All,

I'd like to make a medium strong ale, say 6% ABV. I don't care about the "style" specifically, but I want to limit the effects of "roast, patent, caramel, chocolate etc."

What is the best specialty grain to get a red color without adding the associated flavor effects? IOW, without resorting to food dye, what beer recipe component would you add to a light ale recipe to get "red" color with limited flavor impacts?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

 

[hercher]

I would try a smaller amount of a darker crystal. Use some munich and vienna to darken the beer a little, then the crystal should help make it red.

 

[CryoEng]

I would try a smaller amount of a darker crystal. Use some munich and vienna to darken the beer a little, then the crystal should help make it red.

Is that as effective as something like "cararoma" or "carastan, caravienne, etc...?"

I have used crystal of various levels for years, but I've never tried those other grains. I'm perfectly pleased with crystals, but I was wondering if that's the most straightforward way to get to "red."

I probably have always used a little too much and wound up at "mauve..." :fro:

Thanks much!

Cheers

 

[bottlebomber]

There's always this to play with
http://morebeer.com/view_product/5615//CaraRed_®_Malt

 

[CryoEng]

There's always this to play with
http://morebeer.com/view_product/5615//CaraRed_®_Malt

Thanks bottlebomber.

I was looking at that and other similar grains trying to decide what to buy. I'm in a fairly remote area and UPS works better than a trip to the LHBS. This is what drove me to the question.

Have you used this grain for getting color, mostly...?

Don't' get me wrong, I understand it all interacts, flavor, color, gravity, boiling, and all, I just don't have much experience with the "esoteric" specialty grains.

Cheers!

 

[bottlebomber]

It will give more of a full malty flavor rather than roasty. The caramel trick would work well too though.

 

[CryoEng]

I would try a smaller amount of a darker crystal. Use some munich and vienna to darken the beer a little, then the crystal should help make it red.

hercher is likely to be answering this in a nice succinct way, and I realize that. The right bit of caramel/crystal seems to make sense based on kilning/malting basics.

But, there are all these other ingredients just begging to be tried. Calling out to be part of a beer. I haven't given them their proper respect. Mainly because all I have is the description from the vendor that they "make red and give malty body" or something like that.

I love experimenting, but you guys have used these and have that first hand experience, so I wanted to get "red color vs flavor/body" ideas.

It's all good.

Cheers

 

[CryoEng]

It will give more of a full malty flavor rather than roasty. The caramel trick would work well too though.

Thanks bottlebomber (I hope your title handle ISN'T based on repeated experience with explosions...

That is the basis for my thinking. There has to be some other impact to the brew other than color, but narrowing down the most natural ingredient to get to a medium color with the least impact on those other characteristics has to be based on experience like you have (rather than the supplier's description).

And again, making an excuse for buying/trying a new grain...

It's really all good.

Cheers

 

[HungoverHog]

Any of you guys use Melanoiden malt? I am researching all the grains pretty hard before I dive into this brewing hobby and that one seems to be a good grain for big malt flavor and red colors. The only recipe here I have found with this grain so far is mysticmead's raging red. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f65/raging-red-irish-red-ale-239188/

 

[bottlebomber]

Have yet to bomb a bottle as a basic rule of thumb, the lightest grain used in the greatest quantity will give you a reddish color with the least flavor impact. I just made a Vienna lager with 10 lbs Vienna (3.5L) and 2 lbs Munich(10L) and it was quite red with no roasty notes.

 

[CryoEng]

Have yet to bomb a bottle as a basic rule of thumb, the lightest grain used in the greatest quantity will give you a reddish color with the least flavor impact. I just made a Vienna lager with 10 lbs Vienna (3.5L) and 2 lbs Munich(10L) and it was quite red with no roasty notes.

Ooooh... That sounds tasty! So, the Vienna and Munich were enough to bring some red all by themselves (?).

I see where you're going. Mostly proper selection of base malts. Exactly my thinking without me understanding my own question.

So very cool. Uh, now I have to start the same question but limited to simple base ingredients...

Uh, oh. Still have to place an order, but on a more direct path!!

Thanks very much. This is too much fun. You folks are great.

Cheers

 

[hercher]

hercher is likely to be answering this in a nice succinct way, and I realize that. The right bit of caramel/crystal seems to make sense based on kilning/malting basics.

But, there are all these other ingredients just begging to be tried. Calling out to be part of a beer. I haven't given them their proper respect. Mainly because all I have is the description from the vendor that they "make red and give malty body" or something like that.

I love experimenting, but you guys have used these and have that first hand experience, so I wanted to get "red color vs flavor/body" ideas.

My thought was that you don't want a lot of body, which is what crystal will usually give you. However, if you use something like 7-10 lbs base malt, 1 lb vienna, 1 lb munich, .25 lbs Crystal 80 or even 120, I think you'll get a nice red color without it getting overly full bodied.

I would also suggest that you mash at a lower temperature, say around 150-152. That will give you a nice reddish beer, with nice alcohol warmth. Give it a moderate hoppiness, using say, 1 oz Northern Brewer for bittering, and adding 3-4 oz Fuggles or Willamette the rest of the way. You could use some Czech Saaz for a different profile, as well.

 

[CryoEng]

My thought was that you don't want a lot of body, which is what crystal will usually give you. However, if you use something like 7-10 lbs base malt, 1 lb vienna, 1 lb munich, .25 lbs Crystal 80 or even 120, I think you'll get a nice red color without it getting overly full bodied.

I would also suggest that you mash at a lower temperature, say around 150-152. That will give you a nice reddish beer, with nice alcohol warmth. Give it a moderate hoppiness, using say, 1 oz Northern Brewer for bittering, and adding 3-4 oz Fuggles or Willamette the rest of the way. You could use some Czech Saaz for a different profile, as well.

I'm going to try something on that order. I admit I haven't thought completely through a recipe, but I can't help but think that's what I'm after.

I have to keep in mind the other parts of the process which add to color/body, etc.

After you suggested a direction, the idea seems to be lost in a concept of wonderful homebrew fog. "Warmth, hoppiness..." Hmmm

Placing an order for some Munich and Vienna now. Just sounds too good.

Cheers.