what makes a stout milky and smooth?

[Raffie]

Looking around see lots of things I can use but not a real common one.

Maybe I have not looked hard enough but thought I'd ask it here since there is lots of knowledge in the forums.

 

[Revvy]

It's lactose....

 

[flyangler18]

Could be a variety of things- use of Carapils/Dextrin malt, flaked oats, higher mash temps that favor long chain dextrins, maltodextrine, etc.

 

[Evan!]

Allow me to expand on Rev's short answer. If it's a 'milk' stout or a 'sweet' stout, then the brewer probably added lactose, which is milk sugar and is not fermentable by saccharomyces cerivisae. However, the broader answer is, long-chain dextrins in their many forms (beer yeast can't eat sugars with longer, complex chains). They can be achieved by mashing at higher temps (155-158f), it can be achieved by adding maltodextrin powder to the boil (which gives it a creamy, smooth, thick body without the lactose sweetness), you can add lactose powder, which gives it more of a sweetness, you can add oats (as in Oatmeal Stout) to the mash, and/or dextrin malt like carapils. Just depends on what you're going for. You should try a commercial example of a milk/sweet stout, though, to see if you like the style before you go by Revvy's answer and just start dumping lactose in your stout. Might be that you're not necessarily looking for a milk stout, and you might instead just need to add a bunch of maltodextrin powder to the boil.

 

[Tonedef131]

Everything said in this thread is very valid, but one very important point has been overlooked: carbonation. If you carb a sweet/oatmeal stout over 2 volumes of CO2 it will begin to seem dry and crisp. If you follow everything that was said here and carb to about 1.5-2 volumes of CO2 you will get a nice creamy and heavy mouth feel.

I recently split a ten gallon batch of oatmeal stout with one of my local homebrew buddies. He took his keg and carbed it at the same volumes that he carbs all his american ales and what have you. He then told me how disappointed he was with the lack of creaminess in the beer. I was confused because we mashed pretty high and used 10% oats, but I hadn't cracked mine yet so I wasn't sure. Well I carbed mine to two volumes and it is fantastic, nice mouth coating viscosity and rich creamy texture thanks to proper carbonation.

 

[Edcculus]

Are you talking homebrew/micro bottled stout, or stout served on tap. If its the first, then everything above is valid. If its on tap, the carbonation is proably the main difference. Stouts are served on a percentage of nitrogen gas. This creates smaller bubbles and makes the beer silky smooth. The other factors help too.

 

[Raffie]

Everything said in this thread is very valid, but one very important point has been overlooked: carbonation. If you carb a sweet/oatmeal stout over 2 volumes of CO2 it will begin to seem dry and crisp. If you follow everything that was said here and carb to about 1.5-2 volumes of CO2 you will get a nice creamy and heavy mouth feel.

I recently split a ten gallon batch of oatmeal stout with one of my local homebrew buddies. He took his keg and carbed it at the same volumes that he carbs all his american ales and what have you. He then told me how disappointed he was with the lack of creaminess in the beer. I was confused because we mashed pretty high and used 10% oats, but I hadn't cracked mine yet so I wasn't sure. Well I carbed mine to two volumes and it is fantastic, nice mouth coating viscosity and rich creamy texture thanks to proper carbonation.

How do you determine CO2 volume?
When I keg I usually hit my keg with 20psi while it ages, then when I tap I keep it at 9psi.
Am I doing it wrong?

 

[remilard]

How do you determine CO2 volume?
When I keg I usually hit my keg with 20psi while it ages, then when I tap I keep it at 9psi.
Am I doing it wrong?

You can use a chart such as appears at the bottom of this page

Draft Beer Disp.

to find a combination of temperature and equilibrium pressure that will result in desired carbonation in volumes of dissolved c02.

 

[RC0032]

in addition to the above Force Carbonation & Carb Table

 

[brokenanchor]

Hey Evan! I've always wanted to add malto-dextrin to the boil, but I've never known a good ratio, and I've heard horror stories about adding malto, and creating a beer jello. I know it will vary on the recipe, but what do you think a good ball park range would be for a basic stout recipe...I was thinking somewhere around 4-6 ounces

 

[Raffie]

Hey Evan! I've always wanted to add malto-dextrin to the boil, but I've never known a good ratio, and I've heard horror stories about adding malto, and creating a beer jello. I know it will vary on the recipe, but what do you think a good ball park range would be for a basic stout recipe...I was thinking somewhere around 4-6 ounces

I see lots of beers using 4 to 16oz.
Samuel Adams Cream Stout uses 16oz.

 

[flyangler18]

I see lots of beers using 4 to 16oz.
Samuel Adams Cream Stout uses 16oz.

16 oz of maltodextrin powder? Where did you get that information?

 

[Grinder12000]

f you carb a sweet/oatmeal stout over 2 volumes of CO2 it will begin to seem dry and crisp.

Thanks for reminding me - I'm bottling a Milk stout this afternoon. Using 3.59oz of Corn sugar for 2.2 Vols. I have a Sweet stout should be 2.0 to 2.4 Vols.

BTW - I had 1/2lb Carapils and 3/4lb of Lactose

 

[Raffie]

16 oz of maltodextrin powder? Where did you get that information?

The book Beer Captured.
Samuel Adams Cream Stout page 113.

 

[IrregularPulse]

The book Beer Captured.

Did it say what size the batch was? 160z in a 5 Gallon batch is much different than 16oz in a 30bbl batch!

 

[flyangler18]

The book Beer Captured.

Hmm, I don't have that book. According to the Sam Adams website, the grain bill for the cream stout is pale 2-row, malted wheat, roasted barley, chocolate malt and 60L.

I can't see maltodextrin being added at the commercial level when mash temperature can achieve the same effect by favoring long-chain dextrins.

 

[Raffie]

Did it say what size the batch was? 160z in a 5 Gallon batch is much different than 16oz in a 30bbl batch!

Was for regular 5gal extract.

 

[Raffie]

Hmm, I don't have that book. According to the Sam Adams website, the grain bill for the cream stout is pale 2-row, malted wheat, roasted barley, chocolate malt and 60L.

I can't see maltodextrin being added at the commercial level when mash temperature can achieve the same effect by favoring long-chain dextrins.

Beer Captured is a real good book.

Amazon.com: Beer Captured: Tess Szamatulski, Mark Szamatulski: Books

 

[flyangler18]

Was for regular 5gal extract.

Ah, well that makes sense then. 16 oz still seems like a lot, though.

 

[BierMuncher]

I’m guessing you used the term “milky” as a descriptor and not because it is a Milk Stout you’re talking about. Don’t go adding lactose to a dry stout when the basic recipe calls for 65% malted barley, 25% flaked barley and 10% roasted barley. Flaked barley is the ingredient that adds creaminess.

If you’re referring to the typical dry stouts by Guinness, Beamish or Murphy’s, the common denominator is that the beers are essentially flat by the time they hit your lips. In bars, the beers are pushed by a nitrogen mix on tap and are served through a diffuser.

They are not pushed by nitrogen because nitrogen imparts any certain mouthfeel. Rather, nitrogen prevents the beers from becoming over carb’d while sitting on the gas (nitrogen is not absorbed by beer the way CO2 is.) The diffusers job is to knock as much CO2 out of the beer as possible. That’s why you have to sit and wait 4-5 minutes before being served your draft…while the CO2 settles out.

The bottles and cans you buy at the store have a nitrogen widget inside that injects nitrogen gas into the beer when they are opened and poured. Again, the purpose of the nitrogen is to agitate the beer and carry away the CO2, rendering the beer flat.

If you brew a standard, dry stout and have it carb’d to normal “ale” levels, there are two things you can do to get your served beer closer to a commercial version.

• Give the beer a very aggressive pour. Using a larger than normal glass, hold the glass further from the tap (or the bottle higher than normal from the glass) and do your best to get a huge head. Then let the beer sit and settle just like they do at the pub.
• Let the beer warm a bit. Most pubs serve a good Guinness at cellar temperature, not 37 degrees.

Before you go adding milk sugars to a dry stout, try adjusting your serving techniques first. Any stout served at high carbonation and 37 degrees will never taste proper.

 

[Eves]

Unless I'm mistake Brewer's Best Irish Stout says they use malto dextrin to give the beer the creamy head:

"An Irish style dark ale with full body & flavor, with added malto dextrin you will get a creamy head of foam."


I haven't tried it myself. Just relaying the info.

 

[Reddy]

So how much sugar should I use to carb my oatmeal stout? I want that creamy mouth feel, that's why I went with the oatmeal.

Any ideas?